5 ms·

> I agree that putting developers on death marches is antithetical to everything that is human You agree that this things are happening and its not OK. why do

> I agree that putting developers on death marches is antithetical to everything that is human You agree that this things are happening and its not OK. why do you follow that up with: > but it's not like you don't have options in this industry... Clearly if people are being taken advantage of its an issue. And its issue for large enough percentage of workforce for us to talk about it. Also this is global problem and salaries in game dev do not compare to SV. Well nothing compares to SV pay.

quest88 7y ago
I think op is saying that the video game developers are choosing to subject themselves to it and therefore they don't need protections. Even though conditions are said to be bad studios somehow seem to have an endless supply of developers.
- mlillie 7y ago
  They do subject themselves to it. However, what that analysis lack is an understanding that the worker/employer power relationship is completely asymmetrical. Workers have everything to lose, Employers have nothing to lose. That leads to 'illogical' decisions such as workers who could find work elsewhere opting not to: Shit, their rent, their medicine, their family is on the line here. Maybe the new job will be worse, or have worse benefits, or not let you skip out early on Friday to go to soccer practice?
  - ThrowawayR2 7y ago
    > "Employers have nothing to lose." Wrong in general and doubly wrong in the games industry where small game studios go bankrupt pretty much every other week. Not everybody is a FAANG or a billion dollar game publisher swimming in cash.
    - TimothyBJacobs 7y ago
      Are not some of the worst abuses at AAA studios?
- Angostura 7y ago
  As do coal miners.
  - hinkley 7y ago
    And soldiers. You'll hear rumblings that both are a form of class warfare. I'm not trying to lump game developers into that class, but it makes me wonder what kind of 'happy accident' that is for influential people.
Frondo 7y ago
What infuriates me about the GP post is: unionizing is literally one of the options they have. It's enshrined in law, has a long history, has been implemented to great benefit to scores of people worldwide -- why shouldn't that option be on the table as well for these workers? And, frankly speaking, "go find another job" is a terrible rejoinder, if they like their job, but don't like their working conditions, let them come together in a group to change their working conditions. It's their legal right to do so, as well as a human right.
- unapologetic 7y ago
  Unpopular opinion: Large segments of the american population don't even real realize they have foolishly internalized decades of anti-union propaganda. They just think they are smarter/better/more rational. I disagree. I think you have just eaten up the propaganda pushed by billionaires. There is an entire industry that is dedicated to pushing anti-union propaganda.
  - friendlybus 7y ago
    The union bosses do it to themselves: Misuse of union funds and a union boss passing over union workers for private workers because they cost less for the job. Utopian unions don't happen. https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/detroit-city/2018/11/01/uaw-uses-non-union-labor-construction-home-resort-spot/1811055002/ https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/detroit-city/20...
    - Frondo 7y ago
      There are corrupt unions everywhere, but the only thing more corrupt than unions is management.
    - claudeganon 7y ago
      Yup, and every person on welfare eats caviar and drives a Cadillac. The fact that this is your go to story on unions vs. the millions of well-protected and empowered workers across the world is just more evidence of how internalized this propaganda is in the US.

quest88 7y ago

I think op is saying that the video game developers are choosing to subject themselves to it and therefore they don't need protections. Even though conditions are said to be bad studios somehow seem to have an endless supply of developers.

mlillie 7y ago
They do subject themselves to it. However, what that analysis lack is an understanding that the worker/employer power relationship is completely asymmetrical. Workers have everything to lose, Employers have nothing to lose. That leads to 'illogical' decisions such as workers who could find work elsewhere opting not to: Shit, their rent, their medicine, their family is on the line here. Maybe the new job will be worse, or have worse benefits, or not let you skip out early on Friday to go to soccer practice?
- ThrowawayR2 7y ago
  > "Employers have nothing to lose." Wrong in general and doubly wrong in the games industry where small game studios go bankrupt pretty much every other week. Not everybody is a FAANG or a billion dollar game publisher swimming in cash.
  - TimothyBJacobs 7y ago
    Are not some of the worst abuses at AAA studios?
Angostura 7y ago
As do coal miners.
- hinkley 7y ago
  And soldiers. You'll hear rumblings that both are a form of class warfare. I'm not trying to lump game developers into that class, but it makes me wonder what kind of 'happy accident' that is for influential people.

Frondo 7y ago

What infuriates me about the GP post is: unionizing is literally one of the options they have. It's enshrined in law, has a long history, has been implemented to great benefit to scores of people worldwide -- why shouldn't that option be on the table as well for these workers? And, frankly speaking, "go find another job" is a terrible rejoinder, if they like their job, but don't like their working conditions, let them come together in a group to change their working conditions. It's their legal right to do so, as well as a human right.

unapologetic 7y ago
Unpopular opinion: Large segments of the american population don't even real realize they have foolishly internalized decades of anti-union propaganda. They just think they are smarter/better/more rational. I disagree. I think you have just eaten up the propaganda pushed by billionaires. There is an entire industry that is dedicated to pushing anti-union propaganda.
- friendlybus 7y ago
  The union bosses do it to themselves: Misuse of union funds and a union boss passing over union workers for private workers because they cost less for the job. Utopian unions don't happen. https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/detroit-city/2018/11/01/uaw-uses-non-union-labor-construction-home-resort-spot/1811055002/ https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/detroit-city/20...
  - Frondo 7y ago
    There are corrupt unions everywhere, but the only thing more corrupt than unions is management.
  - claudeganon 7y ago
    Yup, and every person on welfare eats caviar and drives a Cadillac. The fact that this is your go to story on unions vs. the millions of well-protected and empowered workers across the world is just more evidence of how internalized this propaganda is in the US.