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Going through the realization right now that I need to go “FANG” or get out of the Bay Area right now. Just got engaged and I have been looking at costs. I thou

Going through the realization right now that I need to go “FANG” or get out of the Bay Area right now. Just got engaged and I have been looking at costs. I thought I could make a small family work here on $170k. That’s dead wrong. I would need at least $300k to make a family of 4 comfortable here. My wife and I both want her to stay at home and focus on the kids and she makes non tech money anyway. Even at this amount we are looking at a an uninspiring life thats most about paying interest on a way too expensive house and not having enough for retirement or sending the kids to college. Startups in tech aren’t paying close to family raising salaries in the Bay. FANG does albeit reliant on stock continuing to grow like it did last decade. I am personally studying math/algos/leetcode and getting good at interviews. Its sad because it takes up all of my free time that I could spend building. It sucks to make $170k and feel like you can’t make it somewhere. I finally had a breakthrough with my fiance last night and we are talking about moving to Salt Lake City! My current job would allow me to go remote and there does seem to be a scene there. $170k is more than enough.

0x445442 7y ago
My wife and I went through the exact same thing back in 2006 and I can tell you while fear of the unknown is real, it might have been the single best decision we ever made. Also, Phoenix is pretty reasonable cost of living wise and they have a growing number of opportunities tech wise. June 15 - Oct 15 suck but you get used to it.
- jophde 7y ago
  Thanks, I will check out Phoenix. Assuming you are a little older since you moved in 2006, do you feel like the top end of your career has been held back at all by not being in one of the major tech hubs? What does your role look like now.
  - 0x445442 7y ago
    Not at all. In fact there's quite a decent tech scene being built around ASU in Tempe; Amazon among others are there.
    - jophde 7y ago
      I was surprised to see that Amazon (Twitch) is in SLC as well. What sort of paycut would I be expecting. I think my current gig would probably make me go from $170-$150k if I went remote. I assume the top end wouldn't be what it is in the Bay Area but maintaining > $150k is reasonable with 10+ years of experience?
      - 0x445442 7y ago
        If you can find stable remote work that you enjoy that's surely something to consider. If you are flexible on where you can live you can really skew the relative compensation in your favor. I think for most situations you'll find the decrease in pay is more than compensated for by the decreased cost of living compared to the left coast.
datavirtue 7y ago
Cincinnati here. Tons of high paying jobs. No traffic. Plenty of outdoors and hipster life stuff. Very nice houses are super cheap right next to thousands of jobs. I live five minutes from work, no highway, fifteen year loan on a house we are in love with in a great neighborhood. $1200 a month. Imagine that on your salary...you can LA d a job here making the numbers you have in saturated valley.
tmh88j 7y ago
>That’s dead wrong. I would need at least $300k to make a family of 4 comfortable here. The Bay Area has a combined population of over 7 million, with a mean household income of $137k. It sounds like you have unreasonable expectations if you need at least $300k to live comfortably. https://sf.curbed.com/2019/2/25/18239828/report-middle-class-income-ranges-sf-bay-area-salary https://sf.curbed.com/2019/2/25/18239828/report-middle-class... https://smartasset.com/retirement/average-salary-in-san-francisco https://smartasset.com/retirement/average-salary-in-san-fran... https://www.sfgate.com/expensive-san-francisco/article/SF-household-income-192k-middle-class-median-13637536.php https://www.sfgate.com/expensive-san-francisco/article/SF-ho...
- fourmyle 7y ago
  A lot of these people got into the housing market before the explosion in prices over the last 15 years. Also, that stat also doesn't tell you if people on those incomes can afford their houses or how soon they can retire. It sounds like you either don't live in the Bay Area or you make about what I make and haven't realized if you don't make $300k and your options aren't very pleasant.
  - tmh88j 7y ago
    I don't know if you came from an extremely privileged background, but I find it ridiculous that your minimum standard of a comfortable living starts at over double the median household income for that area.
    - fourmyle 7y ago
      I grew up in the Rust Belt in rural PA. Mean salary where I am from is about $22k. You either haven’t lived in the Bay Area or can’t do math if you think what I am saying is crazy. Anyway check this out https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/09/11/you-need-to-make-350000-a-year-to-live-a-middle-class-lifestyle-today-heres-why.html https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/09/11/you...
duderific 7y ago
> Startups in tech aren’t paying close to family raising salaries in the Bay. They are mostly hiring fresh grads anyway, who won't be raising a family anytime soon, so it's not a huge problem for them.
- jophde 7y ago
  I'm including series D companies under the term startup. I agree with you about early stage companies. Jobs at non FANG that don't IPO are not that sustainable imo.
mcguire 7y ago
San Francisco-Oakland-Hayward, CA Metro Area: https://censusreporter.org/profiles/31000US41860-san-francisco-oakland-hayward-ca-metro-area/ https://censusreporter.org/profiles/31000US41860-san-francis... Median household income: $108k Owner-occupied dwellings: 55%
- jophde 7y ago
  Now do people 25-35 that are buying in todays market. That might take you longer than 30 seconds though.
- jophde 7y ago
  https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/09/11/you-need-to-make-350000-a-year-to-live-a-middle-class-lifestyle-today-heres-why.html https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/09/11/you... CNBC saying you need $350k a year for a middle class life in SF and NYC.

0x445442 7y ago

My wife and I went through the exact same thing back in 2006 and I can tell you while fear of the unknown is real, it might have been the single best decision we ever made. Also, Phoenix is pretty reasonable cost of living wise and they have a growing number of opportunities tech wise. June 15 - Oct 15 suck but you get used to it.

jophde 7y ago
Thanks, I will check out Phoenix. Assuming you are a little older since you moved in 2006, do you feel like the top end of your career has been held back at all by not being in one of the major tech hubs? What does your role look like now.
- 0x445442 7y ago
  Not at all. In fact there's quite a decent tech scene being built around ASU in Tempe; Amazon among others are there.
  - jophde 7y ago
    I was surprised to see that Amazon (Twitch) is in SLC as well. What sort of paycut would I be expecting. I think my current gig would probably make me go from $170-$150k if I went remote. I assume the top end wouldn't be what it is in the Bay Area but maintaining > $150k is reasonable with 10+ years of experience?
    - 0x445442 7y ago
      If you can find stable remote work that you enjoy that's surely something to consider. If you are flexible on where you can live you can really skew the relative compensation in your favor. I think for most situations you'll find the decrease in pay is more than compensated for by the decreased cost of living compared to the left coast.

datavirtue 7y ago

Cincinnati here. Tons of high paying jobs. No traffic. Plenty of outdoors and hipster life stuff. Very nice houses are super cheap right next to thousands of jobs. I live five minutes from work, no highway, fifteen year loan on a house we are in love with in a great neighborhood. $1200 a month. Imagine that on your salary...you can LA d a job here making the numbers you have in saturated valley.

tmh88j 7y ago

>That’s dead wrong. I would need at least $300k to make a family of 4 comfortable here. The Bay Area has a combined population of over 7 million, with a mean household income of $137k. It sounds like you have unreasonable expectations if you need at least $300k to live comfortably. https://sf.curbed.com/2019/2/25/18239828/report-middle-class-income-ranges-sf-bay-area-salary https://sf.curbed.com/2019/2/25/18239828/report-middle-class... https://smartasset.com/retirement/average-salary-in-san-francisco https://smartasset.com/retirement/average-salary-in-san-fran... https://www.sfgate.com/expensive-san-francisco/article/SF-household-income-192k-middle-class-median-13637536.php https://www.sfgate.com/expensive-san-francisco/article/SF-ho...

fourmyle 7y ago
A lot of these people got into the housing market before the explosion in prices over the last 15 years. Also, that stat also doesn't tell you if people on those incomes can afford their houses or how soon they can retire. It sounds like you either don't live in the Bay Area or you make about what I make and haven't realized if you don't make $300k and your options aren't very pleasant.
- tmh88j 7y ago
  I don't know if you came from an extremely privileged background, but I find it ridiculous that your minimum standard of a comfortable living starts at over double the median household income for that area.
  - fourmyle 7y ago
    I grew up in the Rust Belt in rural PA. Mean salary where I am from is about $22k. You either haven’t lived in the Bay Area or can’t do math if you think what I am saying is crazy. Anyway check this out https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/09/11/you-need-to-make-350000-a-year-to-live-a-middle-class-lifestyle-today-heres-why.html https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/09/11/you...

duderific 7y ago

> Startups in tech aren’t paying close to family raising salaries in the Bay. They are mostly hiring fresh grads anyway, who won't be raising a family anytime soon, so it's not a huge problem for them.

jophde 7y ago
I'm including series D companies under the term startup. I agree with you about early stage companies. Jobs at non FANG that don't IPO are not that sustainable imo.

mcguire 7y ago

San Francisco-Oakland-Hayward, CA Metro Area: https://censusreporter.org/profiles/31000US41860-san-francisco-oakland-hayward-ca-metro-area/ https://censusreporter.org/profiles/31000US41860-san-francis... Median household income: $108k Owner-occupied dwellings: 55%

jophde 7y ago
Now do people 25-35 that are buying in todays market. That might take you longer than 30 seconds though.
jophde 7y ago
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/09/11/you-need-to-make-350000-a-year-to-live-a-middle-class-lifestyle-today-heres-why.html https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/09/11/you... CNBC saying you need $350k a year for a middle class life in SF and NYC.