I think we are saying the same thing here. I am talking specifically about the trade and not the macro economy. In the case of buying a security, the expected v

I think we are saying the same thing here. I am talking specifically about the trade and not the macro economy. In the case of buying a security, the expected value of the buyer is the future cash flow from the security minus the purchase price. The expected value of the seller is the proceeds of the sale of the security minus the opportunity cost of the future cash flows. These two sides are exactly the same (again ignoring taxes and fees) This is true of any security be it equities or bonds or derivatives. Value isn’t created through trading, but both parties can be made better off because their preferences are different. For example I’m in my late 20’s and don’t need all of my income to live. I don’t mind taking risk for a higher return I could enjoy in the future. My parents are in their mid 60s and have a more immediate need for their money and would be willing to take less return for more stability. Me trading cash for their equities would make us both better off.