10 ms·

Interest in 3D animation? Get Messiah Studio Pro for $40 ($1200 retail value)

77 points by davidjhall 16y ago

bsaunder 16y ago
Does anyone here use this and have a recommendation on platform? My preference is Linux, MaxOS and Windows (in that order). But if not all platforms work equally well, I may reconsider.
- javanix 16y ago
  I don't have any first hand experience with it but it looks like the Linux version is running through Wine, not a native port. Wine is great but for 3D stuff (including games) I've found that its usually more trouble than its worth to get it configured right for my specific systems.
- kikibobo69 16y ago
  I noticed it does 64 bit only on Windows. Not a good sign for other platforms.
  - georgemcbay 16y ago
    Adobe's CS products were 64-bit only on Windows for a while as well, due to Apple's last minute decision to drop 64-bit support for Carbon and force developers into Cocoa use for 64-bit apps. While Adobe addressed the situation with CS5, not every company out there has the same resources available for such a rewrite of their Mac-specific layer on multiplatform software. tl;dr -- Apple is at least partially to blame for the slow move to 64-bit apps on the Mac platform.
    - nika 16y ago
      This app is not written for the mac using Carbon or Cocoa, it is using Crossover. It is a windows app and they're using technology (wine for linux) to get it to run on other platforms. I don't think that, after creating carbon and delaying OS X in the first place due to the demands of microsoft and adobe, that Apple should feel at all guilty, when those two companies do not keep their promises to migrate to cocoa after nearly 10 years. This is especially heinous given that cocoa is a much better platform, is relatively easy to work with, and if the underlying code was written at all decently, the migrating should not be very difficult at all-- maybe a year of effort while working on the next version, and that's being generous. And as a result of doing that migration, even back in 2000-2002, they would have gotten more stable, better performant apps. They just couldn't be bothered, and so for that entire decade from Microsoft and Adobe we've gotten clunky, crappy apps that just have more features piled onto them every year. "64-bit" is just one of those features. Apple create carbon to soften the transition for these two companies... but they never bothered to transition. Further, Apple didn't drop 64 bit support for carbon, it never existed. This phrasing is one of the lies adobe has told about apple in their ongoing war. 64-bit carbon support was on a roadmap at one point, but they decided not to do it because the original mac OS X and consequently carbon are fundamentally 32 bit and it involved too many resources. I'm sure they did some exploratory work, but the claim that they "dropped it" is a claim that they shipped it and then reneged. That adobe has been able to lie about this and create an impression in you, and many others, that apple dropped support and "forced" people is one of the reasons Apple is so reticent to talk about future plans. That people are blaming Apple for this when Adobe and Microsoft sat on their asses for a decade, I just don't understand. (Well, actually I do.)
RyanHolliday 16y ago
I'd never heard of Messiah Studio before, but heck, I've dabbled in 3D enough to cough up $40 for professional software. Fingers crossed it hits the goal.
- kj12345 16y ago
  Yeah I've never heard of this either despite reading quite a lot about 3D software recently. But it's good to see an independent package that hasn't been acquired by Autodesk (yet). I'm a bit suspicious of the lack of recent reviews or discussion online, but as you say $40 is worth the risk.
  - andrewce 16y ago
    A google search for reviews doesn't turn up much, so you're probably not alone in saying "I've never heard of this". Said search turns up quite a few rapidshare/torrenting links, but with a price point of only $40, I don't see why anyone would go that route.
    - frou_dh 16y ago
      Even $40 is $40 too much for the typical I-don't-pay-for-software mindset.
    - alanfalcon 16y ago
      Word is that Messiah requires a dongle to run. I can imagine even people with a licensed copy seeking out a cracked version that they can run unencumbered.
- tibbon 16y ago
  Right on. Most 3d plugins cost far more. I might be convinced :)
- nroach 16y ago
  There's some commentary about it on the lightwave forums (http://www.spinquad.com/forums/showthread.php?27757-Messiah-Studio-and-Lightwave-An-Objective-View http://www.spinquad.com/forums/showthread.php?27757-Messiah-...) but I'm still not sure why you'd use Messiah over LW3D, Blender, or one of the more mainstream packages. For a hobbyist, this might be a good value, but if you're looking at it for semi-pro use, it might be a better investment of time to build portable skills in a more widely adopted platform. edit: comparison here: http://www.thepixelart.com/10-best-real-time-animation-tools/ http://www.thepixelart.com/10-best-real-time-animation-tools...
CountHackulus 16y ago
Interesting business model here. They'll give you the program for $40, but charge you extra for the tutorials. Still, for $40 how can you go wrong on a piece of professional software?
- icefox 16y ago
  My gut says it is the wrong way around. I suspect that a user would buy the program for $40 because I want to save money and then don't buy the tutorials resulting in not being able to do that much and giving the app negative reviews because it is 'hard'.
rythie 16y ago
Anyone used blender for this sort of thing? http://www.blender.org/ http://www.blender.org/
- RyanHolliday 16y ago
  Played with it a bit a few years ago. For what it is (free 3D software), I think it does fine. But at the same time, I think there's a reason it's not really being used professionally in the film industry (disclaimer: it wasn't the last time I looked, anyway).
  - cryptoz 16y ago
    Blender was used to storyboard in Spiderman 2, so it's...getting closer. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blender_(software)#Use_in_the_media_industry http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blender_(software)#Use_in_the_m...
  - zaphar 16y ago
    blender is used a lot more in the industry than you probably know. As one already mentioned it was used to do the animatics for spiderman 2 and it's used in a number of small admination shops for the smaller illustration and animation markets (adverts, short films, stills) Studios usually don't advertise the tool used in a production to the general public. The trend is shifting in favour of tools like blender though. Blender is also doing a lot of heavy marketing to those segments through their open movie and game projects. I can see a day in the future where studios contribute significant developer time to a project like blender in lieu of expensive licenses for something like Maya or 3DS.
- jlongster 16y ago
  Blender is good, but it's community-driven approach shows in the UI. It's pretty crusty and ugly, but in the end, it works pretty well.
  - windsurfer 16y ago
    Have you seen the latest iteration of their UI? It's much closer to the likes of Maya and 3DS Max now, and is quite usable.
dirtyaura 16y ago
Anyone has experience how well it runs on Mac?
- nika 16y ago
  It is using crossover to be able to run the windows code on a mac. So it isn't a native mac port.
dirtyaura 16y ago
Anyone has experience how well it runs on Mac?
NathanKP 16y ago
I wish I had $40 in my Paypal account. I'd buy it for sure. Ah well, even if I don't end up getting Messiah Pro, there's always Blender3D, which is free, and which I have some experience in already.
- omarchowdhury 16y ago
  http://thepiratebay.org/ http://thepiratebay.org/
alanfalcon 16y ago
A note: Messiah Studio doesn't have any way to actually create or paint 3D models, it's simply for rigging/animating models that you would create in other programs and import.
- andrewce 16y ago
  From their website: "messiahStudio can be used as a complete stand-alone animation and rendering package, or as a powerful addition to Modo, Maya, 3DMAX, SoftImage XSI, LightWave, Cinema 4D or an in-house proprietary application; through extensive animation export capabilities (fbx, mdd, collada), Host Connection plugins and Host API." When I read this the first time, I assumed that "animation" meant modeling as well, but only because I don't know very much about this whole process. Thanks for pointing this out.
PostOnce 16y ago
1] Build software, charge $1,160 too much for it. 2] Wait a while, put it on "sale" for $40, tell everyone they are SAVING THOUSANDS. 3] Profit. If it were really worth $1,200, people would pay $1,200, and they'd charge $1,200. Let me know when Adobe and Autodesk start selling their stuff for $40.
- absconditus 16y ago
  People do pay $1200 for it. See the bottom of the page here: http://projectmessiah.com/x6/products.html http://projectmessiah.com/x6/products.html The people who are only willing to pay $40 are not the main demographic that messiahStudio is marketed to. I honestly expect a bit more business sense on HN.
- phren0logy 16y ago
  I have no stake in this, and have not used this software, but consider another option: 1] Build a great piece of software, worth every nickel of $1200. 2] Release it to a crowded field where you are a small fish in a big pond, overshadowed by players like Adobe and Autodesk. 3] Drop the price dramatically and take a hit up front to build your customer base, because you believe in your product. 4] Profit. I have no idea which of these two scenarios is closer to the truth. I have never used this software. I am, however, glad for a world with startups and innovators.
- makmanalp 16y ago
  Alternative scenario: 1) Build software, charge $1000+ for it, even though it cost you way less 2) Get insane margins. 3) Don't lower your prices ever to reinforce the assumption that it really is worth that much, meanwhile making competitors' products look cheap / worthless. 4) Profit.
- georgemcbay 16y ago
  Messiah has been around since 1999ish (originally as a plugin for Lightwave), so if that was their plan they certainly work on a very long time scale! Messiah is actually pretty great at what it does though it must be getting squeezed a bit by Blender3D with the strides that (totally free) software has made in usability over the last year or so. I do find it a little bit curious that they (pmG) haven't defined what either their goal is or what the timeframe for meeting the goal is. I doubt they are doing anything underhanded, but if the "goal" is not met in whatever the "timeframe" is, it'll be pretty easy for people to make a case that the whole thing was a PR stunt rigged from the start.. of course, then they'd be on the hook for who knows how many refunds, which doesn't come for free.
hook 16y ago
There is a difference between value and price.
- spiralganglion 16y ago
  Remember when WebObjects went from $50000, to $699, to "bundled"? This sort of movement is certainly a signal. Maybe the Messiah devs are tired of being in a niche. I hope that's what it is.
joblessjunkie 16y ago
So, naked advertising now qualifies for HN front page?
- javanix 16y ago
  I thought it was an interesting advertising technique, at least, and ties in well with interests that many visitors here might have.

77 points by davidjhall 16y ago

Does anyone here use this and have a recommendation on platform? My preference is Linux, MaxOS and Windows (in that order). But if not all platforms work equally well, I may reconsider.

javanix 16y ago
I don't have any first hand experience with it but it looks like the Linux version is running through Wine, not a native port. Wine is great but for 3D stuff (including games) I've found that its usually more trouble than its worth to get it configured right for my specific systems.
kikibobo69 16y ago
I noticed it does 64 bit only on Windows. Not a good sign for other platforms.
- georgemcbay 16y ago
  Adobe's CS products were 64-bit only on Windows for a while as well, due to Apple's last minute decision to drop 64-bit support for Carbon and force developers into Cocoa use for 64-bit apps. While Adobe addressed the situation with CS5, not every company out there has the same resources available for such a rewrite of their Mac-specific layer on multiplatform software. tl;dr -- Apple is at least partially to blame for the slow move to 64-bit apps on the Mac platform.
  - nika 16y ago
    This app is not written for the mac using Carbon or Cocoa, it is using Crossover. It is a windows app and they're using technology (wine for linux) to get it to run on other platforms. I don't think that, after creating carbon and delaying OS X in the first place due to the demands of microsoft and adobe, that Apple should feel at all guilty, when those two companies do not keep their promises to migrate to cocoa after nearly 10 years. This is especially heinous given that cocoa is a much better platform, is relatively easy to work with, and if the underlying code was written at all decently, the migrating should not be very difficult at all-- maybe a year of effort while working on the next version, and that's being generous. And as a result of doing that migration, even back in 2000-2002, they would have gotten more stable, better performant apps. They just couldn't be bothered, and so for that entire decade from Microsoft and Adobe we've gotten clunky, crappy apps that just have more features piled onto them every year. "64-bit" is just one of those features. Apple create carbon to soften the transition for these two companies... but they never bothered to transition. Further, Apple didn't drop 64 bit support for carbon, it never existed. This phrasing is one of the lies adobe has told about apple in their ongoing war. 64-bit carbon support was on a roadmap at one point, but they decided not to do it because the original mac OS X and consequently carbon are fundamentally 32 bit and it involved too many resources. I'm sure they did some exploratory work, but the claim that they "dropped it" is a claim that they shipped it and then reneged. That adobe has been able to lie about this and create an impression in you, and many others, that apple dropped support and "forced" people is one of the reasons Apple is so reticent to talk about future plans. That people are blaming Apple for this when Adobe and Microsoft sat on their asses for a decade, I just don't understand. (Well, actually I do.)

RyanHolliday 16y ago

I'd never heard of Messiah Studio before, but heck, I've dabbled in 3D enough to cough up $40 for professional software. Fingers crossed it hits the goal.

kj12345 16y ago
Yeah I've never heard of this either despite reading quite a lot about 3D software recently. But it's good to see an independent package that hasn't been acquired by Autodesk (yet). I'm a bit suspicious of the lack of recent reviews or discussion online, but as you say $40 is worth the risk.
- andrewce 16y ago
  A google search for reviews doesn't turn up much, so you're probably not alone in saying "I've never heard of this". Said search turns up quite a few rapidshare/torrenting links, but with a price point of only $40, I don't see why anyone would go that route.
  - frou_dh 16y ago
    Even $40 is $40 too much for the typical I-don't-pay-for-software mindset.
  - alanfalcon 16y ago
    Word is that Messiah requires a dongle to run. I can imagine even people with a licensed copy seeking out a cracked version that they can run unencumbered.
tibbon 16y ago
Right on. Most 3d plugins cost far more. I might be convinced :)
nroach 16y ago
There's some commentary about it on the lightwave forums (http://www.spinquad.com/forums/showthread.php?27757-Messiah-Studio-and-Lightwave-An-Objective-View http://www.spinquad.com/forums/showthread.php?27757-Messiah-...) but I'm still not sure why you'd use Messiah over LW3D, Blender, or one of the more mainstream packages. For a hobbyist, this might be a good value, but if you're looking at it for semi-pro use, it might be a better investment of time to build portable skills in a more widely adopted platform. edit: comparison here: http://www.thepixelart.com/10-best-real-time-animation-tools/ http://www.thepixelart.com/10-best-real-time-animation-tools...

CountHackulus 16y ago

Interesting business model here. They'll give you the program for $40, but charge you extra for the tutorials. Still, for $40 how can you go wrong on a piece of professional software?

icefox 16y ago
My gut says it is the wrong way around. I suspect that a user would buy the program for $40 because I want to save money and then don't buy the tutorials resulting in not being able to do that much and giving the app negative reviews because it is 'hard'.

rythie 16y ago

Anyone used blender for this sort of thing? http://www.blender.org/ http://www.blender.org/

RyanHolliday 16y ago
Played with it a bit a few years ago. For what it is (free 3D software), I think it does fine. But at the same time, I think there's a reason it's not really being used professionally in the film industry (disclaimer: it wasn't the last time I looked, anyway).
- cryptoz 16y ago
  Blender was used to storyboard in Spiderman 2, so it's...getting closer. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blender_(software)#Use_in_the_media_industry http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blender_(software)#Use_in_the_m...
- zaphar 16y ago
  blender is used a lot more in the industry than you probably know. As one already mentioned it was used to do the animatics for spiderman 2 and it's used in a number of small admination shops for the smaller illustration and animation markets (adverts, short films, stills) Studios usually don't advertise the tool used in a production to the general public. The trend is shifting in favour of tools like blender though. Blender is also doing a lot of heavy marketing to those segments through their open movie and game projects. I can see a day in the future where studios contribute significant developer time to a project like blender in lieu of expensive licenses for something like Maya or 3DS.
jlongster 16y ago
Blender is good, but it's community-driven approach shows in the UI. It's pretty crusty and ugly, but in the end, it works pretty well.
- windsurfer 16y ago
  Have you seen the latest iteration of their UI? It's much closer to the likes of Maya and 3DS Max now, and is quite usable.

dirtyaura 16y ago

Anyone has experience how well it runs on Mac?

nika 16y ago
It is using crossover to be able to run the windows code on a mac. So it isn't a native mac port.

dirtyaura 16y ago

Anyone has experience how well it runs on Mac?

NathanKP 16y ago

I wish I had $40 in my Paypal account. I'd buy it for sure. Ah well, even if I don't end up getting Messiah Pro, there's always Blender3D, which is free, and which I have some experience in already.

omarchowdhury 16y ago
http://thepiratebay.org/ http://thepiratebay.org/

alanfalcon 16y ago

A note: Messiah Studio doesn't have any way to actually create or paint 3D models, it's simply for rigging/animating models that you would create in other programs and import.

andrewce 16y ago
From their website: "messiahStudio can be used as a complete stand-alone animation and rendering package, or as a powerful addition to Modo, Maya, 3DMAX, SoftImage XSI, LightWave, Cinema 4D or an in-house proprietary application; through extensive animation export capabilities (fbx, mdd, collada), Host Connection plugins and Host API." When I read this the first time, I assumed that "animation" meant modeling as well, but only because I don't know very much about this whole process. Thanks for pointing this out.

PostOnce 16y ago

1] Build software, charge $1,160 too much for it. 2] Wait a while, put it on "sale" for $40, tell everyone they are SAVING THOUSANDS. 3] Profit. If it were really worth $1,200, people would pay $1,200, and they'd charge $1,200. Let me know when Adobe and Autodesk start selling their stuff for $40.

absconditus 16y ago
People do pay $1200 for it. See the bottom of the page here: http://projectmessiah.com/x6/products.html http://projectmessiah.com/x6/products.html The people who are only willing to pay $40 are not the main demographic that messiahStudio is marketed to. I honestly expect a bit more business sense on HN.
phren0logy 16y ago
I have no stake in this, and have not used this software, but consider another option: 1] Build a great piece of software, worth every nickel of $1200. 2] Release it to a crowded field where you are a small fish in a big pond, overshadowed by players like Adobe and Autodesk. 3] Drop the price dramatically and take a hit up front to build your customer base, because you believe in your product. 4] Profit. I have no idea which of these two scenarios is closer to the truth. I have never used this software. I am, however, glad for a world with startups and innovators.
makmanalp 16y ago
Alternative scenario: 1) Build software, charge $1000+ for it, even though it cost you way less 2) Get insane margins. 3) Don't lower your prices ever to reinforce the assumption that it really is worth that much, meanwhile making competitors' products look cheap / worthless. 4) Profit.
georgemcbay 16y ago
Messiah has been around since 1999ish (originally as a plugin for Lightwave), so if that was their plan they certainly work on a very long time scale! Messiah is actually pretty great at what it does though it must be getting squeezed a bit by Blender3D with the strides that (totally free) software has made in usability over the last year or so. I do find it a little bit curious that they (pmG) haven't defined what either their goal is or what the timeframe for meeting the goal is. I doubt they are doing anything underhanded, but if the "goal" is not met in whatever the "timeframe" is, it'll be pretty easy for people to make a case that the whole thing was a PR stunt rigged from the start.. of course, then they'd be on the hook for who knows how many refunds, which doesn't come for free.

hook 16y ago

There is a difference between value and price.

spiralganglion 16y ago
Remember when WebObjects went from $50000, to $699, to "bundled"? This sort of movement is certainly a signal. Maybe the Messiah devs are tired of being in a niche. I hope that's what it is.

joblessjunkie 16y ago

So, naked advertising now qualifies for HN front page?

javanix 16y ago
I thought it was an interesting advertising technique, at least, and ties in well with interests that many visitors here might have.