6 ms·

How would YouTube know the user is a child?

by pkaye 7y ago

throwaway2048 7y ago
Where do you think Google Analytics demographic data comes from.
- pkaye 7y ago
  I don't know. Enlighten me. And how accurate is the identification?
  - hannasanarion 7y ago
    Accurate enough that they sell it to advertisers who want children to see their ads. If their demographic detection was bad, they would have no revenue and no customers since that's the flagship product that they are selling.
    - lern_too_spel 7y ago
      The lowest age range YouTube Ads lets you target is 18-24.
      - hannasanarion 7y ago
        There are plenty of age proxies that youtube happily lets advertisers target. Advertisers can tell youtube "Show my ad to fans of Peppa Pig".
unapologetic 7y ago
Oh they don't. They absolutely completely have no way at all of knowing. Just ask them, no way of being sure. Course the data is all there, but they just really promise they never put it together and knowingly went after kids.
ronilan 7y ago
Assume, just for the sake of the discussion, obviously, that it may be possible, using some certain commonly accepted methods, and with some reasonable, commonly accepted margin of error, to detect that a user, signed into an account, is NOT a child. Will this help?
- pkaye 7y ago
  Its better to filter out content that is targeting kids.
- derefr 7y ago
  What is a "user"? Is it the owner of the account? Or is it the person using the account at the moment? When I'm signed into the YouTube app on my smart TV, and anyone who sits in front of the TV can use the app to play content, then who is the "user" of the app? Can you detect that my child is currently the one sitting there flipping through videos?
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- danShumway 7y ago
  Depends on whether you're willing to tolerate false positives. To start with, I'm not a huge fan of the idea that the Internet as whole could be legally obligated to assume I'm a child unless I provide every site I visit with a drivers license, for example. But let's take your assumption to the next level: let's assume that there's some privacy-respecting way of doing this (I don't believe there is, but we'll temporarily pretend it exists). I'm also not a huge fan of the idea that the Internet as a whole could be legally obligated to assume I'm a child based on criteria that are outside of my control. I personally think most of our experience with filters online have taught us that they're best implemented close to the consumer, not close to the source. To be clear, both Youtube and the FTC are turning this into a dumpster fire. But the idea of filtering content that's designed for children is better than the idea of filtering consumers. It's just that this implementation of that idea is garbage and unnecessarily hurts creators.
ogre_codes 7y ago
Either they have a children's account (https://support.google.com/families/answer/7103338?hl=en https://support.google.com/families/answer/7103338?hl=en) Or Google figures it out the same way they infer any number of things about you and use it to resell advertising. If they can figure out someone is a woman between 19 and 25, I'm pretty sure they can figure out with a good degree of accuracy that a user is under 15.
- ouid 7y ago
  In a similar vein, if it's illegal to do enough tracking on a 12 year old to identify them as a 12 year old, and 12 year olds exist, then it's illegal to do any tracking, right?
  - derefr 7y ago
    You could just turn the negative-detection into positive detection: sell hardware that you have to be 18 to buy, and then provide your service only through that hardware.
    - pkaye 7y ago
      Parents will buy said hardware for their kids.
      - derefr 7y ago
        Well, that's fine, then; with enough clear labelling, that's legally entirely the parents' fault.
        tssva 7y ago
        Google already requires accounts with a birth date indicating they are 13 or older, thus not subject to COPA, to verify their age via charging a credit card or sending in a copy of a government issued id. Any kids that were watching either stole a credit card or their parents created the account for them. The FTC decided this was not adequate, so I don't expect they would deem your scheme compliant either.

How would YouTube know the user is a child?

by pkaye 7y ago

How would YouTube know the user is a child?

throwaway2048 7y ago

Where do you think Google Analytics demographic data comes from.

pkaye 7y ago
I don't know. Enlighten me. And how accurate is the identification?
- hannasanarion 7y ago
  Accurate enough that they sell it to advertisers who want children to see their ads. If their demographic detection was bad, they would have no revenue and no customers since that's the flagship product that they are selling.
  - lern_too_spel 7y ago
    The lowest age range YouTube Ads lets you target is 18-24.
    - hannasanarion 7y ago
      There are plenty of age proxies that youtube happily lets advertisers target. Advertisers can tell youtube "Show my ad to fans of Peppa Pig".

unapologetic 7y ago

Oh they don't. They absolutely completely have no way at all of knowing. Just ask them, no way of being sure. Course the data is all there, but they just really promise they never put it together and knowingly went after kids.

ronilan 7y ago

Assume, just for the sake of the discussion, obviously, that it may be possible, using some certain commonly accepted methods, and with some reasonable, commonly accepted margin of error, to detect that a user, signed into an account, is NOT a child. Will this help?

pkaye 7y ago
Its better to filter out content that is targeting kids.
derefr 7y ago
What is a "user"? Is it the owner of the account? Or is it the person using the account at the moment? When I'm signed into the YouTube app on my smart TV, and anyone who sits in front of the TV can use the app to play content, then who is the "user" of the app? Can you detect that my child is currently the one sitting there flipping through videos?
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
danShumway 7y ago
Depends on whether you're willing to tolerate false positives. To start with, I'm not a huge fan of the idea that the Internet as whole could be legally obligated to assume I'm a child unless I provide every site I visit with a drivers license, for example. But let's take your assumption to the next level: let's assume that there's some privacy-respecting way of doing this (I don't believe there is, but we'll temporarily pretend it exists). I'm also not a huge fan of the idea that the Internet as a whole could be legally obligated to assume I'm a child based on criteria that are outside of my control. I personally think most of our experience with filters online have taught us that they're best implemented close to the consumer, not close to the source. To be clear, both Youtube and the FTC are turning this into a dumpster fire. But the idea of filtering content that's designed for children is better than the idea of filtering consumers. It's just that this implementation of that idea is garbage and unnecessarily hurts creators.

ogre_codes 7y ago

Either they have a children's account (https://support.google.com/families/answer/7103338?hl=en https://support.google.com/families/answer/7103338?hl=en) Or Google figures it out the same way they infer any number of things about you and use it to resell advertising. If they can figure out someone is a woman between 19 and 25, I'm pretty sure they can figure out with a good degree of accuracy that a user is under 15.

ouid 7y ago
In a similar vein, if it's illegal to do enough tracking on a 12 year old to identify them as a 12 year old, and 12 year olds exist, then it's illegal to do any tracking, right?
- derefr 7y ago
  You could just turn the negative-detection into positive detection: sell hardware that you have to be 18 to buy, and then provide your service only through that hardware.
  - pkaye 7y ago
    Parents will buy said hardware for their kids.
    - derefr 7y ago
      Well, that's fine, then; with enough clear labelling, that's legally entirely the parents' fault.
      - tssva 7y ago
        Google already requires accounts with a birth date indicating they are 13 or older, thus not subject to COPA, to verify their age via charging a credit card or sending in a copy of a government issued id. Any kids that were watching either stole a credit card or their parents created the account for them. The FTC decided this was not adequate, so I don't expect they would deem your scheme compliant either.