6 ms·

> has the power (both politically and financially) to see this battle through It is absolutely infuriating that a rich individual can get the type of "justice"

by whack 7y ago

> has the power (both politically and financially) to see this battle through It is absolutely infuriating that a rich individual can get the type of "justice" that the rest of us can never hope to achieve, in the legal system. Or as Peter Thiel put it when he bankrupted Gawker: "If you're a single-digit millionaire like Hulk Hogan, you have no effective access to our legal system." Unfortunately, this suit is unlikely to make any difference in the above, and it doesn't seem like anyone cares about fixing the above problem. Maybe I'm just being a fundamentalist who's blowing it out of proportion. But my sense of fairness is constantly outraged by how ridiculously hard it is for any layperson to get justice in today's legal system.

mikeyouse 7y ago
> Or as Peter Thiel put it when he bankrupted Gawker: "If you're a single-digit millionaire like Hulk Hogan, you have no effective access to our legal system." Which is amusing since the lawyer that Thiel used is constantly suing on behalf of single-digit millionaires to stifle free speech all over the country (including threatening to sue the NYT for reporting on Harvey Weinstein's crimes). Not a whole lot of principles in that group.
- mc32 7y ago
  I think that's a bit harsh. Even people who confess and for whom the prosecution has good evidence, can and will get lawyers or public defenders. How would you feel if a public defender took the position of "nah, this gal is clearly a criminal, we have seen the footage --its a pass, let her represent herself".
  - mikeyouse 7y ago
    These are civil suits voluntarily launched by 'aggrieved' parties. I don't think there's any reasonable comparison to public defenders.
    - mc32 7y ago
      Ok, what if lawyers were biased and "simply" declined to represent one class of people because I dunno, they are "debtors" and don't deserve representation against an authoshop which ripped them off.
      - JackRabbitSlim 7y ago
        They do, all the time. You have no expectation of legal council outside of criminal law. Debt collectors are running roughshod on the poor and vulnerable.
        jacobr1 7y ago
        Doesn't "small claims" court ameliorate this somewhat? Genuinely curious
        ceejayoz 7y ago
        Only for the initiating party, and only up to a certain monetary threshold. If you're being sued, or someone's screwed you out of $50k, not so much.
  - tedivm 7y ago
    Getting a public defender is not the same as getting a dedicated legal team- not even close. Some public defenders have over a hundred active cases, so they clearly aren't focusing on each individual, and when working those cases they have an incredibly small budget. Getting a lawyer and getting an actual defense are different things.
    - hcknwscommenter 7y ago
      I'm not sure they even have a budget all. I mean, there is presumably a budget for copying files and making phone calls maybe but not for hiring independent experts etc.
- dragonwriter 7y ago
  > Which is amusing as the lawyer Thiel used is constantly suing on behalf of single-digit millionaires to stifle free speech all over the country (including threatening to sue the NYT for reporting on Harvey Weinstein's crimes) Harvey Weinstein isn't a single-digit millionaire but a triple-digit one, his net worth is estimated at $240-300 million. This (and the lawyers work for Thiel) is consistent with, though does not imply, Thiel’s contention that the wealth at which one has effective access to the legally system is much greater than that of a single-digit millionaire. Not sure what other “single-digit” millionaires you think he is working on behalf of, but your one concrete example certainly isn't one.
  - mikeyouse 7y ago
    How about Shiva Ayyadurai's suit to try and kill TechDirt when TechDirt wrote that he didn't invent email? https://www.thedailybeast.com/gawker-killing-lawyer-charles-harder-fails-to-kill-techdirt https://www.thedailybeast.com/gawker-killing-lawyer-charles-... Or Barry Honig's penny stock charades where Harder represented the fraudster in suing people who wrote about his fraud and then represented another alleged penny-stock fraudster John Hurry in his suits against journalists who wrote about his fraud: https://www.teribuhl.com/2019/03/28/about-that-insider-story-on-trump-attorney-charles-harder-the-journalist-bully/ https://www.teribuhl.com/2019/03/28/about-that-insider-story... Harder is a bad dude who sues journalists for seriously troubling reasons. That many people agreed with his takedown of Gawker is unfortunate when the rest of his 'portfolio' is so poisonous to the first amendment.
    - dragonwriter 7y ago
      Honig seems to probably be at least a double-digit millionaire (at least, prior to the sanctions for the fraud). Ayyadurai, however, does seem to be a single-digit millionaire or less. > Harder is a bad dude who sues journalists for seriously troubling reasons. Sure, I just don't see evidence that it's primarily or even regularly on behalf of people who aren't significantly wealthier (or sponsored by someone wealthier) than single-digit millionaires, such that it is somehow a contradiction to Thiel’s claim about the limited effective legal power of people at merely that level of wealth when they lack a wealthier benefactor.
- MiroF 7y ago
  Weinstein isn't remotely a single digit millionaire.
unapologetic 7y ago
Elon Musk comitted fraud on twitter and nothing happened. Elon Musk called a guy a pedo on twitter, and won the trial. The "jury" had a fucking lawyer who owns 2 Teslas.
FireBeyond 7y ago
Hogan had plenty of access to the legal system. He'd even settled with Gawker before Thiel's interference. Gawker was a muckraking institution with little of worth. But Hogan had settled for 0.005% of what he asked of Gawker with the other involved party, and was amenable to taking an ownership share of the Gawker empire. Don't paint Thiel in some white knight suit just helping embattled people "fight the power".

by whack 7y ago

mikeyouse 7y ago

> Or as Peter Thiel put it when he bankrupted Gawker: "If you're a single-digit millionaire like Hulk Hogan, you have no effective access to our legal system." Which is amusing since the lawyer that Thiel used is constantly suing on behalf of single-digit millionaires to stifle free speech all over the country (including threatening to sue the NYT for reporting on Harvey Weinstein's crimes). Not a whole lot of principles in that group.

mc32 7y ago
I think that's a bit harsh. Even people who confess and for whom the prosecution has good evidence, can and will get lawyers or public defenders. How would you feel if a public defender took the position of "nah, this gal is clearly a criminal, we have seen the footage --its a pass, let her represent herself".
- mikeyouse 7y ago
  These are civil suits voluntarily launched by 'aggrieved' parties. I don't think there's any reasonable comparison to public defenders.
  - mc32 7y ago
    Ok, what if lawyers were biased and "simply" declined to represent one class of people because I dunno, they are "debtors" and don't deserve representation against an authoshop which ripped them off.
    - JackRabbitSlim 7y ago
      They do, all the time. You have no expectation of legal council outside of criminal law. Debt collectors are running roughshod on the poor and vulnerable.
      - jacobr1 7y ago
        Doesn't "small claims" court ameliorate this somewhat? Genuinely curious
        ceejayoz 7y ago
        Only for the initiating party, and only up to a certain monetary threshold. If you're being sued, or someone's screwed you out of $50k, not so much.
- tedivm 7y ago
  Getting a public defender is not the same as getting a dedicated legal team- not even close. Some public defenders have over a hundred active cases, so they clearly aren't focusing on each individual, and when working those cases they have an incredibly small budget. Getting a lawyer and getting an actual defense are different things.
  - hcknwscommenter 7y ago
    I'm not sure they even have a budget all. I mean, there is presumably a budget for copying files and making phone calls maybe but not for hiring independent experts etc.
dragonwriter 7y ago
> Which is amusing as the lawyer Thiel used is constantly suing on behalf of single-digit millionaires to stifle free speech all over the country (including threatening to sue the NYT for reporting on Harvey Weinstein's crimes) Harvey Weinstein isn't a single-digit millionaire but a triple-digit one, his net worth is estimated at $240-300 million. This (and the lawyers work for Thiel) is consistent with, though does not imply, Thiel’s contention that the wealth at which one has effective access to the legally system is much greater than that of a single-digit millionaire. Not sure what other “single-digit” millionaires you think he is working on behalf of, but your one concrete example certainly isn't one.
- mikeyouse 7y ago
  How about Shiva Ayyadurai's suit to try and kill TechDirt when TechDirt wrote that he didn't invent email? https://www.thedailybeast.com/gawker-killing-lawyer-charles-harder-fails-to-kill-techdirt https://www.thedailybeast.com/gawker-killing-lawyer-charles-... Or Barry Honig's penny stock charades where Harder represented the fraudster in suing people who wrote about his fraud and then represented another alleged penny-stock fraudster John Hurry in his suits against journalists who wrote about his fraud: https://www.teribuhl.com/2019/03/28/about-that-insider-story-on-trump-attorney-charles-harder-the-journalist-bully/ https://www.teribuhl.com/2019/03/28/about-that-insider-story... Harder is a bad dude who sues journalists for seriously troubling reasons. That many people agreed with his takedown of Gawker is unfortunate when the rest of his 'portfolio' is so poisonous to the first amendment.
  - dragonwriter 7y ago
    Honig seems to probably be at least a double-digit millionaire (at least, prior to the sanctions for the fraud). Ayyadurai, however, does seem to be a single-digit millionaire or less. > Harder is a bad dude who sues journalists for seriously troubling reasons. Sure, I just don't see evidence that it's primarily or even regularly on behalf of people who aren't significantly wealthier (or sponsored by someone wealthier) than single-digit millionaires, such that it is somehow a contradiction to Thiel’s claim about the limited effective legal power of people at merely that level of wealth when they lack a wealthier benefactor.
MiroF 7y ago
Weinstein isn't remotely a single digit millionaire.

unapologetic 7y ago

Elon Musk comitted fraud on twitter and nothing happened. Elon Musk called a guy a pedo on twitter, and won the trial. The "jury" had a fucking lawyer who owns 2 Teslas.

FireBeyond 7y ago

Hogan had plenty of access to the legal system. He'd even settled with Gawker before Thiel's interference. Gawker was a muckraking institution with little of worth. But Hogan had settled for 0.005% of what he asked of Gawker with the other involved party, and was amenable to taking an ownership share of the Gawker empire. Don't paint Thiel in some white knight suit just helping embattled people "fight the power".