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Right to repair laws need to be put in place. American corporations are trying to reach a point where you don't own products. You are merely long-term renting

Right to repair laws need to be put in place. American corporations are trying to reach a point where you don't own products. You are merely long-term renting or leasing products from them. And any alterations or repairs will come with a heavy price. It's already hard enough to repair your own vehicle without taking it to a dealership. How long until small car shops can't even fix any cars if they don't have the tools or software.

onetimemanytime 7y ago
>>You are merely long-term renting or leasing products from them. Correction: You lease after buying them once. I doubt the govt will help, USA is kinda hands off
asdff 7y ago
That reality is already here. Good luck getting your Tesla serviced at the local garage.
- artursapek 7y ago
  While that's true, at least electric cars have a low maintenance burden compared to ICE cars.
duxup 7y ago
Right to repair had some traction in Minnesota, but the same politicians that farmers vote (MNGOP) for opposed it. There's a lot of strange ideological nose cutting off in rural america.
xnyan 7y ago
It's already here. The only reason I can do my own work on my N20 engine BMW is because they implemented really bad and vulnerable car DRM that can be trivially defeated, but they have improved on that in latter models.
- BoorishBears 7y ago
  You can't work on them, or you can't flash them with emissions control defeating tunes?
  - bsagdiyev 7y ago
    Or install a replacement part without taking it to the BMW dealership and having them code it to the car. Why is it only don't work on cars or pollute like no tomorrow? There is a middle ground and a lot of people are screwed by DRM like this because of it.
    - BoorishBears 7y ago
      >Why is it only don't work on cars or pollute like no tomorrow? Who said it was? The comment mentioned working on the engine specifically, there's not much DRM that can interfere with working on the engine unless you're trying to tune your ECU. It's not like the N20 is going to check your pistons and connecting rods for authenticity before starting after all. There are not even that many parts in BMWs that are VIN-locked, and much fewer with actual DRM. Usually the parts referred to with that, the BCMs are VIN-locked by most manufacturers (I know GM and Mercedes both do the same) I'm sure you can come up with some outlier parts for specific models, but in general, complexity of newer cars it the enemy of repair, not some active attempt to get you into a dealership. - In fact, I'd almost say the opposite is true of brands like BMW. They make a lot of money of leases with "maintenance included". As they caught on to how brilliantly leases were paying off they started to stretch recommended service intervals to keep people out of the dealership as much as possible.
      - bsagdiyev 7y ago
        The N52 engine will refuse to start if the iDrive system is not working (if the car has this feature), the iDrive system is an expensive replacement, on top of the work required to code it to the car. All of the in-car systems signals go through the computer that controls the iDrive system since it is a fiber ring network through the car, terminating at the amp in the trunk and the iDrive system in the front.
_trampeltier 7y ago
The right to repair is one thing, the other thing is, from where will you get this this special print card, the special chip, the special sensor, if they use it like this just for ex. just one year in production. So after 10 years, there are 10 different version, different protocols etc. You still will throw away sooner or later the whole tractor (or whatever) because you can't find an special electronic part.

onetimemanytime 7y ago

>>You are merely long-term renting or leasing products from them. Correction: You lease after buying them once. I doubt the govt will help, USA is kinda hands off

asdff 7y ago

That reality is already here. Good luck getting your Tesla serviced at the local garage.

artursapek 7y ago
While that's true, at least electric cars have a low maintenance burden compared to ICE cars.

duxup 7y ago

Right to repair had some traction in Minnesota, but the same politicians that farmers vote (MNGOP) for opposed it. There's a lot of strange ideological nose cutting off in rural america.

xnyan 7y ago

It's already here. The only reason I can do my own work on my N20 engine BMW is because they implemented really bad and vulnerable car DRM that can be trivially defeated, but they have improved on that in latter models.

BoorishBears 7y ago
You can't work on them, or you can't flash them with emissions control defeating tunes?
- bsagdiyev 7y ago
  Or install a replacement part without taking it to the BMW dealership and having them code it to the car. Why is it only don't work on cars or pollute like no tomorrow? There is a middle ground and a lot of people are screwed by DRM like this because of it.
  - BoorishBears 7y ago
    >Why is it only don't work on cars or pollute like no tomorrow? Who said it was? The comment mentioned working on the engine specifically, there's not much DRM that can interfere with working on the engine unless you're trying to tune your ECU. It's not like the N20 is going to check your pistons and connecting rods for authenticity before starting after all. There are not even that many parts in BMWs that are VIN-locked, and much fewer with actual DRM. Usually the parts referred to with that, the BCMs are VIN-locked by most manufacturers (I know GM and Mercedes both do the same) I'm sure you can come up with some outlier parts for specific models, but in general, complexity of newer cars it the enemy of repair, not some active attempt to get you into a dealership. - In fact, I'd almost say the opposite is true of brands like BMW. They make a lot of money of leases with "maintenance included". As they caught on to how brilliantly leases were paying off they started to stretch recommended service intervals to keep people out of the dealership as much as possible.
    - bsagdiyev 7y ago
      The N52 engine will refuse to start if the iDrive system is not working (if the car has this feature), the iDrive system is an expensive replacement, on top of the work required to code it to the car. All of the in-car systems signals go through the computer that controls the iDrive system since it is a fiber ring network through the car, terminating at the amp in the trunk and the iDrive system in the front.

_trampeltier 7y ago

The right to repair is one thing, the other thing is, from where will you get this this special print card, the special chip, the special sensor, if they use it like this just for ex. just one year in production. So after 10 years, there are 10 different version, different protocols etc. You still will throw away sooner or later the whole tractor (or whatever) because you can't find an special electronic part.