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Proposed FAA Rule Would Kickstart New Economy for IDing Drones
- falcolas 7y agoPerhaps it's just me, but a set of visual identifiers (letters, numbers) with a certain regulated size seems a lot more viable (and easy to tell if someone is in violation). They've done it with aircraft for decades.
- opwieurposiu 7y agoThis is already a rule for that https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2019/02/13/2019-00765/external-marking-requirement-for-small-unmanned-aircraft https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2019/02/13/2019-00...
- falcolas 7y agoWhich doesn't provide for "identifiable at a distance", which is what the new rulings are intended to solve.
- reaperducer 7y agoAircraft is a serious industry with serious people. Drones are available in toy stores. With the exception of JANET, every airline in America properly identifies its aircraft both visually and with radio beacon ID. They're two different arenas. It's harder for the an airspace violator to disable a radio ID beacon on his drone than to just run a Sharpie over a printed identifier. You'll never stop the hardcore jerks. But you can dissuade the casual jerk from misbehaving. The same way locking your car won't stop a real car thief, but will keep rando handle jigglers from rummaging through your ride.
- falcolas 7y agoIn class G airspace, you aren't required to have a radio beacon ID. Class G airspace corresponds to where most drones fly.
- backtoyoujim 7y ago"hardcore jerk" is someone that isn't interested in the bottom line of some capitalist while seeking one's happiness.
- penagwin 7y agoSpeaking for my 5in drone (Most racing/freestyle drones), there's not really anywhere to put such a label and have it be easily visible from... well anywhere unless you're physically holding the drone. We're currently required by the FAA to have the license number visible on the drone, but due to the nature of non-winged drones, there's not really any useful large flat surface. If you managed to place a large enough label on the drone to be readable from ~20 feet away then you're going to be running into a lot of issues with aerodynamics and durability in a crash. Tl;DR - Good luck reading any reasonable label on a 5in drone @30mph 50 feet in the air.
- falcolas 7y agoFWIW, most racing drones have an axis that they primarily fly in (you don't crab racing drones often), providing a plane in which an identifier could exist. If you make it out of a mesh, it wouldn't even impact flight performance or crash resistance much.
- paulmd 7y agocould even use light persistence from LEDs. Not necessarily on the fan blades, perhaps on the body as it moves forward https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yn4KRySf3LM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yn4KRySf3LM
- falcolas 7y agoAll else aside, that would be cool to see. “What’s your craft’s identifier?” “Let me spin up the blades here quick.”
- oceanghost 7y agoEverything I've read and heard about this FAA rule is that it will more or less crush independent designers and pilots, leaving the skies to commercial companies. I feel like this title is trying to spin a very, very bad thing.
- emilfihlman 7y ago100%. This is not a good thing and the article here is pretty much a bought piece.
- hyperbovine 7y agoBad for whom? Aviation was much safer both for the passengers and the poor guy on the ground once it became professionalized.
- falcolas 7y agoAnd yet you can still fly under 1,200 feet Above Ground Level (where I am) without being controlled (Class G airspace). I (personally) feel like hobby and personal drones fall into this kind of "general use air space" usecase.
- pc86 7y agoSome places. At some times. It's not a hard and fast rule and there are plenty of spaces where controlled airspace extends to the ground.
- falcolas 7y agoWhich also describes legal locations to use drones. You, without an exception, can’t fly a drone in class e or above airspace.
- paulmd 7y agoThat's the part this regulation is taking away, more or less. That airspace is being given to Amazon for commercial operations.
- AWildC182 7y agoThis seems really contrived... Should be a visual registration number and ADS-B out for everything over a pound or so like every other aircraft in existence (per the ADS-B 2020 mandate[1]) [1]some restrictions apply
- opwieurposiu 7y agoOn page 100 they explain why they do not want to use ADS-B. Basically, ADS-B does not currently have a way to transmit the location of the control station and has trouble at low altitudes. Also they are worried about too many drones saturating the spectrum for manned aircraft ADS-B. https://s3.amazonaws.com/public-inspection.federalregister.gov/2019-28100.pdf https://s3.amazonaws.com/public-inspection.federalregister.g...?
- AWildC182 7y agoWhy are they worried about the location of the control station? This seems a lot like regulation for the sake of regulation. The pilots won't really have access to this information in flight if it's not broadcast on ADS-B so why even bother? This is an ADS-B problem not a drone one and this is coming from a pilot rather than a drone operator. If they're really worried about frequency saturation just broadcast at low powers so aircraft are notified through the point to point system when they approach a drone.
- jagged-chisel 7y ago"Identifying" drones. This is not about a technology that rhymes with "Eye Ding Drones." Edit: I misread - I can't be the only one, so I offered some help.
- thecrumb 7y agoJoshua Bardwell has a pretty good discussion here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4E1aEym-1cQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4E1aEym-1cQ
- piannucci 7y agoCan we have a bounty program for capturing and turning in transponderless drones? :]
- Filligree 7y agoMake sure the bounty is less than the cost of the drone...
- Rebelgecko 7y agoDo these rules make it illegal for hobbyists to fly drones in areas without internet access?
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- ifend 7y agoI believe so. You will not even be able to take off until you have registered/checked-in/whatever with the tracking service (over the internet). Note that this is for ALL unmanned aircraft not just drones.
- opwieurposiu 7y agoThere are two types of drones > 0.55lbs Standard Remote Identification and Limited Remote Identification. Limited Remote Identification will be the cheaper type and can not take off without an internet connection. Standard Remote Identification will have equipment to radio broadcast location data and can take off without internet connection. See table on page 98 https://s3.amazonaws.com/public-inspection.federalregister.gov/2019-28100.pdf https://s3.amazonaws.com/public-inspection.federalregister.g... Your other options are to fly < 0.55lbs or fly in specially designated areas, like model aircraft club airfields.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- parsimo2010 7y agoThe wording of the proposed rule is purposely worded for broadcasting information to the internet "when available." This applies only to drones with "standard" remote ID capability (as defined by the rules). This is because the standard capability also has a radio broadcast feature that functions without the internet. Drones with "limited" remote ID capability would not be authorized to take off without internet (because they have no radio broadcast), and if they lose connectivity in flight they are supposed to land.
- gacklesmom 7y agoThanks, I think I'll continue to disable any outgoing communications, tape over the lights, and fly from concealed positions. Just because a government agency that's bought and paid for by rich private pilots and airlines starts making new laws doesn't mean people are going to follow them. I've got just as much right to airspace as some asshole in a Cessna.
- jedberg 7y agoDo you also drive unlabeled cars on the streets because you feel that you have just as much right to the roads as that asshole in a Ford Fiesta who has a license plate?
- tjohns 7y agoThe person flying a Cessna literally has their life on the line, the drone operator does not. Also, the person flying a Cessna has to get significant training and has to follow the same rules as someone flying a 737, the drone operator does not. This kind of attitude is precisely why the FAA is adding additional requirements for flying a drone.
- slenk 7y ago> “As a pilot, my eye is always on safety first,” FAA Administrator Steve Dickson said in a statement Thursday announcing the rule. “Safety is a joint responsibility between government, pilots, the drone community, the general public and many others who make our nation so creative and innovative.” How does this make it any more safe? People are still going to fly where they aren't supposed to and in ways that aren't safe, and this rule won't change a thing in those regards. If you're currently using a drone to fly over downtown LA illegally and take shots, why in the world would you put identifying information on it? I would also like to know what private companies are getting all this money to implement a new system? Could they have any ties to individuals within the FAA? The Commercial Drone Alliance has also been pushing hard, presumably since it is trying to keep its commercial partners the only operators that can fly. To me, the fact they are saying this is for safety, is a very VERY thin argument.
- bjt2n3904 7y agoIt's pretty simple... registration systems like this don't actually make anyone safer, they just make people feel safer because they get to exert some minuscule amount of control.
- CrazyStat 7y ago> If you're currently using a drone to fly over downtown LA illegally and take shots, why in the world would you put identifying information on it? Because the proposed regulations make it illegal to sell drones that don't identify themselves.
- slenk 7y agoBuild your own. It's easy. I've built 2 myself and have learned from/taught some of my friends. I have registered myself with the FAA for their current program, but I know plenty of people that haven't. Nor do I want to have to figure out what I need for a TinyWhoop or similar because every little bit of weight is important at that size.
- jedberg 7y ago
- Glyptodon 7y agoAm I the only one who thinks this kind of regulatory system seems a bit doomed to fail?
- jedberg 7y agoWhy? It's like license plates on cars.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- Glyptodon 7y agoCars are huge machines bound to roadways. Despite this people are constantly driving on suspended licenses, without licenses, without insurance, under the influence, speeding, etc. Regulating them mostly works because they're limited to specific spaces, are a huge time and money investment to construct, and so large they're fairly easy to monitor. I don't see why the apparent "success" of license plates on cars means something even more convoluted will work for drones, which come in drastically different sizes, and are extremely simple to assemble and use. We seem to recognize that licensing bicycles isn't really a feasible thing, and licensing tiny objects that move quickly in 3-D space, and which present even less challenge to assemble than a bicycle, doesn't seem all that likely to succeed with actors who want to do things outside the system. Or even cover people who just do stuff without thinking about it. As technology gets advanced maybe there will be more of a carrot - maybe registration gets you access to autonomous navigational beacons and traffic control or something, and you'd prefer to have those things. But operating what amounts to a large cell phone attached to some electric motors unregistered seems like it'll always remain trivial for anyone who doesn't want to cooperate in a way that's not really the case for cars.
- duelingjello 7y agoKid: flies an R/C airplane at a park. FAA: “You’re under arrest for unlicensed drone operation!” Is this sort of scenario we really want? More government control and monetary extraction from every single, benign human activity? Should kites and paper airplanes require licenses too?