8 ms·

Something tells me that ASML will be the target of China hacking them and trying to get technical info on how to build their own machine. Hate to be pessimistic

by xt00 7y ago

Something tells me that ASML will be the target of China hacking them and trying to get technical info on how to build their own machine. Hate to be pessimistic but I’ll be waiting for that news story to hit in a year or so..

est31 7y ago
They are certainly at the cutting edge of semiconductor manufacturing. Given this bliss screen in a 2015 promo video and the general approach to security in the hardware sector, I doubt they are at the cutting edge of securing their own computers: https://youtu.be/ttbaaI5xUcg?t=254 https://youtu.be/ttbaaI5xUcg?t=254
- baybal2 7y ago
  Fab equipment running XP is still not as bad as few years old tools running Freedos
dirtyid 7y ago
A couple years ago, ASML silicon valley based Chinese employees (not all PRC nationals) sold EUV trade secrets to Chinese/Korean owned XTAL. But ASML CEO dismissed it as state level espionage and hinted the primary beneficiary was Samsung semiconductors. From what I heard ASML goes out of their way to prevent Samsung from reverse engineering their hardware. But it's only a matter of time. ASML is tied to Wassenaar treaty at the end of the day. They're the perfect US pawns.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- tooltalk 7y ago
  There appears to be some kind of smear campaign waged against Samsung by its foundry competitor TSMC at national level. Not sure about this insecurity or fake rivalry by Taiwanese tech companies who see Samsung as a major threat (https://phys.org/news/2013-04-taiwan-tech-industry-samsung.html https://phys.org/news/2013-04-taiwan-tech-industry-samsung.h...), but according to Reuters: ASML rejects Samsung's involvement in IP theft case with rival, APRIL 17, 2019, https://www.reuters.com/article/us-asml-holding-spying-samsung-elec/asml-rejects-samsungs-involvement-in-ip-theft-case-with-rival-idUSKCN1RT1UR https://www.reuters.com/article/us-asml-holding-spying-samsu... Samsung invested heavily in both companies XTAL and ASML (and owned at least 5% of the company at one point). Further, Samsung was never in semi-equipment/chemical business -- that's simply not their core competence.
  - dirtyid 7y ago
    I don't think it's a smear campaign per say, Samsung stole their their way to display tech dominance. It's just recognition that these tactics are still being embraced in lagging industries in some countries. ASML has no-touch policy for Samsung employees for their scanners, they've been pretty savvy in mitigating attempts at copying their tech for the last 20 years. Also I didn't mean to implicate Samsung was behind the attacks, merely they benefited most from stolen trade secrets - XTAL directly compete against ASML in Korean using the secret. The same way Huawei and BOE will benefit from flexible screen tech stolen by Samsung subcontractor Toptek. So far these have been economically motivated - thieves not spies. I think state level espionage is going to happen soon, now that ASML has been pressured to pick sides.
    - tartoran 7y ago
      https://bits-chips.nl/artikel/to-asml-china-is-just-another-korea/ https://bits-chips.nl/artikel/to-asml-china-is-just-another-...
      - tooltalk 7y ago
        ASML rejects Samsung's involvement in IP theft case with rival, APRIL 17, 2019, https://www.reuters.com/article/us-asml-holding-spying-samsu.. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-asml-holding-spying-samsu....
    - tooltalk 7y ago
      > Also I didn't mean to implicate Samsung was behind the attacks ... Really? After describing XTAL as "owned by Chinese/Korean" when Samsung was just an outside investor and quoting ASML CEO accusing Samsung? Or how about your willful ignorance that Samsung had been a major 5+% "owner" of ASML under customer co-investment program since 2012? Sure, you may be right. I'm a software engineer, so I don't have any insight in the industry, but you should at least try to look neutral and consistent. Don't forget to wipe your history so as to make it difficult to guess your national origin (though I didn't have to), because it's so easy to see your ulterior motive through the garbage -- it destroys your credibility.
deogeo 7y ago
Already happened last year: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19703909 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19703909

by xt00 7y ago

est31 7y ago

They are certainly at the cutting edge of semiconductor manufacturing. Given this bliss screen in a 2015 promo video and the general approach to security in the hardware sector, I doubt they are at the cutting edge of securing their own computers: https://youtu.be/ttbaaI5xUcg?t=254 https://youtu.be/ttbaaI5xUcg?t=254

baybal2 7y ago
Fab equipment running XP is still not as bad as few years old tools running Freedos

dirtyid 7y ago

A couple years ago, ASML silicon valley based Chinese employees (not all PRC nationals) sold EUV trade secrets to Chinese/Korean owned XTAL. But ASML CEO dismissed it as state level espionage and hinted the primary beneficiary was Samsung semiconductors. From what I heard ASML goes out of their way to prevent Samsung from reverse engineering their hardware. But it's only a matter of time. ASML is tied to Wassenaar treaty at the end of the day. They're the perfect US pawns.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
tooltalk 7y ago
There appears to be some kind of smear campaign waged against Samsung by its foundry competitor TSMC at national level. Not sure about this insecurity or fake rivalry by Taiwanese tech companies who see Samsung as a major threat (https://phys.org/news/2013-04-taiwan-tech-industry-samsung.html https://phys.org/news/2013-04-taiwan-tech-industry-samsung.h...), but according to Reuters: ASML rejects Samsung's involvement in IP theft case with rival, APRIL 17, 2019, https://www.reuters.com/article/us-asml-holding-spying-samsung-elec/asml-rejects-samsungs-involvement-in-ip-theft-case-with-rival-idUSKCN1RT1UR https://www.reuters.com/article/us-asml-holding-spying-samsu... Samsung invested heavily in both companies XTAL and ASML (and owned at least 5% of the company at one point). Further, Samsung was never in semi-equipment/chemical business -- that's simply not their core competence.
- dirtyid 7y ago
  I don't think it's a smear campaign per say, Samsung stole their their way to display tech dominance. It's just recognition that these tactics are still being embraced in lagging industries in some countries. ASML has no-touch policy for Samsung employees for their scanners, they've been pretty savvy in mitigating attempts at copying their tech for the last 20 years. Also I didn't mean to implicate Samsung was behind the attacks, merely they benefited most from stolen trade secrets - XTAL directly compete against ASML in Korean using the secret. The same way Huawei and BOE will benefit from flexible screen tech stolen by Samsung subcontractor Toptek. So far these have been economically motivated - thieves not spies. I think state level espionage is going to happen soon, now that ASML has been pressured to pick sides.
  - tartoran 7y ago
    https://bits-chips.nl/artikel/to-asml-china-is-just-another-korea/ https://bits-chips.nl/artikel/to-asml-china-is-just-another-...
    - tooltalk 7y ago
      ASML rejects Samsung's involvement in IP theft case with rival, APRIL 17, 2019, https://www.reuters.com/article/us-asml-holding-spying-samsu.. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-asml-holding-spying-samsu....
  - tooltalk 7y ago
    > Also I didn't mean to implicate Samsung was behind the attacks ... Really? After describing XTAL as "owned by Chinese/Korean" when Samsung was just an outside investor and quoting ASML CEO accusing Samsung? Or how about your willful ignorance that Samsung had been a major 5+% "owner" of ASML under customer co-investment program since 2012? Sure, you may be right. I'm a software engineer, so I don't have any insight in the industry, but you should at least try to look neutral and consistent. Don't forget to wipe your history so as to make it difficult to guess your national origin (though I didn't have to), because it's so easy to see your ulterior motive through the garbage -- it destroys your credibility.

deogeo 7y ago

Already happened last year: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19703909 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19703909