5 ms·

Electricity is very expensive in Germany, driving electric can actually be more expensive than gasoline cars.

gambiting 7y ago
I don't believe that for one second. Electricity is also stupidly expensive in the UK and driving on electricity is still an order of magnitude cheaper than driving on petrol.
- vardump 7y ago
  Electricity costs 2x in Germany compared to UK. Also I really doubt it's an order of magnitude (10x) cheaper.
mcv 7y ago
If that was the reason, Tesla wouldn't be selling there either. For whatever reason, the market has decided that Tesla is preferable to Mercedes.
- clouddrover 7y ago
  Tesla is not topping the charts in German EV sales so Tesla versus Mercedes is not the relevant comparison: http://ev-sales.blogspot.com/2019/12/germany-november-2019.html http://ev-sales.blogspot.com/2019/12/germany-november-2019.h... I'd say the Volkswagen ID.3 will top the German EV market this year. It'll be interesting to see its sales figures at year end.
  - mcv 7y ago
    What is the "Dutch market black-hole effect" that that article keeps talking about? Is demand for electric cars in Netherland so high that it absorbs all electric cars that get close to it?
    - clouddrover 7y ago
      Dutch subsidies for EVs have changed and are now being reduced year by year starting this year. There was an increase in EV purchases last year to get the maximum subsidy.
throwaway4220 7y ago
0.30 euro / kwh * 80 kwh = 24 euros to drive 220 miles 220 mi / 16 mpg for GLS 550 (similar size?) = 13 gallons * 5.25 euro/gallon = 72 euro https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_EQC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_EQC https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/40761.shtml https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/40761.shtml https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/Germany/gasoline_prices https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/Germany/gasoline_prices
- gambiting 7y ago
  I mean, that's not really a fair comparison. EQC is more like the GLC, perhaps GLE at a stretch, and in Germany you'd usually get it with a 220d diesel, those get 40-50mpg easily.
  - vardump 7y ago
    Indeed. Which is enough to put electricity at par or even more expensive than ICE vehicles. Germany is also densely populated, which means many can't charge at home and might need to pay a higher rate for electricity somewhere else.
  - Barracoon 7y ago
    The Model X uses 22.93 kWh/100 km. Electricity is € .31 / KWH. 22.93 * .31 = € 7.1083 / 100 km The GLC 200d uses 5.2 L/100 km (best efficiency). Diesel is € 1.266/L. 5.2 * 1.266 = € 6.5832 / 100 km So yea in DE it may be more cost beneficial to drive diesel than electric. If you get a GLC 300 using gasoline it goes up to € 9.798 / 100 km.
    - gambiting 7y ago
      I guess it also relies on whether you can get any deal for electricity or not. Here in UK I pay £0.15/kWh, but during the night it goes down to £0.07/kWh. So as long as I can limit charging the car to nighttime, it's actually very very cheap.
    - davidgould 7y ago

I don't believe that for one second. Electricity is also stupidly expensive in the UK and driving on electricity is still an order of magnitude cheaper than driving on petrol.

vardump 7y ago
Electricity costs 2x in Germany compared to UK. Also I really doubt it's an order of magnitude (10x) cheaper.

mcv 7y ago

If that was the reason, Tesla wouldn't be selling there either. For whatever reason, the market has decided that Tesla is preferable to Mercedes.

clouddrover 7y ago
Tesla is not topping the charts in German EV sales so Tesla versus Mercedes is not the relevant comparison: http://ev-sales.blogspot.com/2019/12/germany-november-2019.html http://ev-sales.blogspot.com/2019/12/germany-november-2019.h... I'd say the Volkswagen ID.3 will top the German EV market this year. It'll be interesting to see its sales figures at year end.
- mcv 7y ago
  What is the "Dutch market black-hole effect" that that article keeps talking about? Is demand for electric cars in Netherland so high that it absorbs all electric cars that get close to it?
  - clouddrover 7y ago
    Dutch subsidies for EVs have changed and are now being reduced year by year starting this year. There was an increase in EV purchases last year to get the maximum subsidy.

throwaway4220 7y ago

0.30 euro / kwh * 80 kwh = 24 euros to drive 220 miles 220 mi / 16 mpg for GLS 550 (similar size?) = 13 gallons * 5.25 euro/gallon = 72 euro https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_EQC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_EQC https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/40761.shtml https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/40761.shtml https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/Germany/gasoline_prices https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/Germany/gasoline_prices

gambiting 7y ago
I mean, that's not really a fair comparison. EQC is more like the GLC, perhaps GLE at a stretch, and in Germany you'd usually get it with a 220d diesel, those get 40-50mpg easily.
- vardump 7y ago
  Indeed. Which is enough to put electricity at par or even more expensive than ICE vehicles. Germany is also densely populated, which means many can't charge at home and might need to pay a higher rate for electricity somewhere else.
- Barracoon 7y ago
  The Model X uses 22.93 kWh/100 km. Electricity is € .31 / KWH. 22.93 * .31 = € 7.1083 / 100 km The GLC 200d uses 5.2 L/100 km (best efficiency). Diesel is € 1.266/L. 5.2 * 1.266 = € 6.5832 / 100 km So yea in DE it may be more cost beneficial to drive diesel than electric. If you get a GLC 300 using gasoline it goes up to € 9.798 / 100 km.
  - gambiting 7y ago
    I guess it also relies on whether you can get any deal for electricity or not. Here in UK I pay £0.15/kWh, but during the night it goes down to £0.07/kWh. So as long as I can limit charging the car to nighttime, it's actually very very cheap.
  - davidgould 7y ago