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If you're going for a perfectly maintained look to wild plantings, then yeah, that's a a lot of work. We've replaced our lawn with wild savanna, and it's zero

If you're going for a perfectly maintained look to wild plantings, then yeah, that's a a lot of work. We've replaced our lawn with wild savanna, and it's zero work. We just let it go. It looks totally wild, and I'm happy with that. (Getting it in place - removing the invasives, improving the soil, planting trees, and spreading native wildflower and grass seeds was a lot of work - but since its established its very little work. Just occasionally walking through it and pulling out the invasives that are trying to move back in.) Part of the change that needs to happen is a change in our aesthetics.

dhimes 7y ago
Oh- so you're that neighbor. It's not just a change in your aesthetics that's needed. If you live in a community then it's prudent to get community buy-in. Especially if you have kids. Community reputation means a lot more than some people realize. Source: I've been on both sides of this one.
- gbrown 7y ago
  People are way too uptight about lawns
- vanderZwan 7y ago
  Yeah, at the root of this all is a cultural issue more than anything else. Funny enough my mom has let her garden grow wild for years and neighbors have been telling her they love how lush it is from the start, yet somehow don't quite dare to let their own garden free (and before anyone asks, I'm pretty sure it's not a backhanded compliment).
- huebomont 7y ago
  those people who want a community of only people who think the same way as they do should move out far enough that they don't have neighbors.
  - kingdomcome50 7y ago
    Do you think it is unreasonable to want to surround oneself with like-minded individuals? I am not trying to imply the opposite isn't _also_ reasonable.
    - logfromblammo 7y ago
      Yes. It is particularly unreasonable to want to surround yourself with individuals who think grass lawns, kept cut to a uniform length between 4" and 8", are a good idea, and a worthy goal for landscaping. That's a 1946 ideal. In the same way that it was a 1946 ideal to build a residential-only neighborhood away from the big city, with racist covenants and redlines to keep the black people out. It was designed to evoke the manicured lawns of English and French castles, especially the "green carpet" at Versailles. Mount Vernon and Monticello and the White House featured grass lawns. And the mechanical lawnmower opened that aristocratic status symbol up to those without herds of grazing animals or scything slaves to keep it close-cropped. That, and lawn bowling and golf courses, made everyone crazy for grass lawns. Abraham Levitt (of Levittown) and Frederick Law Olmstead then installed a whole complex of unreasonability into generations of Americans. It is reasonable to surround yourself with people, each of whom arranges their affairs such that they need not have similar opinions on the disposition and upkeep of each other's properties. It is reasonable to mind your own business when someone else rips out their useless bermudagrass and replaces it with edible flowering herbs. It is very unreasonable to march up to their door to wave HOA covenants and city landscaping ordinances in their face in an effort to make them replant the grass. Yet that is what neighborhood busybodies do on a regular basis. We can't get rid of them, because they have the 1946 racists on their side, and they got there first, and they built entrenchments--legally, of course, as actual entrenchments would ruin the neighborhood aesthetic. If you want a lawn, buy yourself a nice, square mile of property in the country, build a castle on it, and cut down everything that could hide approaching infantry. Rotate your herds around so that the grazing fodder is kept short. Then you can also have the formal gardens in the back, and maybe also a hedge maze. If you want a lawn in the suburbs, fine, but keep it on your own property and don't try to grow it over your neighbors' properties with some sick legal scheme.
- behringer 7y ago
  Ah so you're that neighbor that's concerned about what everybody else is doing rather than minding your own business. There's nothing wrong with a yard full of native plants. You should stop trying to keep up with the neighbors and start letting people live their lives without your input.
  - kingdomcome50 7y ago
    I don't disagree with the sentiment of your post, but I don't think that is the point the previous poster was making. It's naive to think other people won't make judgments about your choices. Even more so if you think that those judgments can't affect you. I assume you maintain decent personal hygiene/comb your hair/wear appropriate clothing? Why? The reality is that the community around you can and _does_ produce effects material to your life, even if you aren't aware of them. Maybe you weren't invited to that BBQ? Maybe you then missed the opportunity to connect with someone in your field of work? Who knows...
- BOBOTWINSTON 7y ago
  Assuming you can, you should live around the type of community you want. You sound like you want to live in the HOA controlled landscaping suburb, which is great! OP clearly chose to live somewhere where they wouldn't have neighbors saying these sorts of things. They have put thought into a cool experiment that has apparently paid off for them. Personally, I've never experienced a neighborhood with a strict HOA that I could stand to stick around in. There always seems to be a minority with too much time on their hands playing neighborhood CIA operative and acting like they've just received power for the first time in their lives. I know that might be a little harsh but there always seems to be some variant of this around. I live in a condo now where those people still exist, but it is so much better. They have much less power and visibility.
- iamaelephant 7y ago
  That horrible neighbour growing native plants and attracting pollinators? The horror of it.
- dbingham 7y ago
  As it happens, my neighbors are of varying opinions on the matter. The ones I hear from, love it. I'm sure there are those who hate it, but I don't hear from them. But this is how you make change. You need the pathfinders to show how it can be done and start the discussion.
corporate_shi11 7y ago
You're telling people that they "need" to change their subjective appreciation of what constitutes beauty and aesthetic pleasure? I mean this as sincere constructive criticism, you will not win support for sustainability with such a demand. People don't enjoy being told how they "need" to feel about something as personal as aesthetic experience. Focus on how sustainability is good for people and how it will improve their lives. If they prefer orderly, manicured lawns, don't look down at them saying they need to change their aesthetics.
- kingkawn 7y ago
  Except they need to change their aesthetics
- ZeroFries 7y ago
  We tell serial killers with an appreciation for the grotesque to cut it out all the time.
  - cr0sh 7y ago
    The jokes write themselves, don't they?
- jjeaff 7y ago
  They also need to recognize that asthetics is not the only factor. You can't kick a soccer ball on a lawn covered with shrubbery. While a natural landscape can be fun for kids to play in, it's not very versatile when you just want space to roll around and have fun with kids. But sure, if you never go outside and never set foot on your lawn, then a maintenance free lawn is fine. All the rednecks in trailer homes where I come from think so too. You could even store your older vehicles that no longer run on the lawn in case you need parts later.
brlewis 7y ago
In New England letting grasses flourish would also provide a home for ticks and Lyme disease. I try to be friendly to pollinators but unfriendly to ticks.
- jdhawk 7y ago
  Get a couple chickens? I'm only partially joking, they do eat a ton of ticks.
  - jawilson2 7y ago
    And possums!
  - nkrisc 7y ago
    But then you need coyotes to control the chicken population in your yard.
  - jjeaff 7y ago
    Chickens actually don't. They kind of eat indescriminately. But guineas supposedly will hunt the ticks. But be prepared for some weird, loud sounds.
- tharne 7y ago
  Yup. Prior to spraying our yard, the majority of my family contracted Lyme disease.
- dbingham 7y ago
  Encourage possums to move in. Indiana has its share of ticks, but we also have plenty of possums. Chickens are another option. This is about learning how to fit ourselves comfortably in to nature - because pretending we can be above, outside, or removed from it is sending us careening towards disaster.
merpnderp 7y ago
I think about the generation that first started having lawns and how they came from farm country and knew all about having native/weed "lawns". The hay fever, the bugs and parasites, the snakes, all this drove them to appreciate a nice fresh lawn your kids could roll around on and enjoy. It's gonna be a hard sell to get people to enjoy something their grandparents overwhelmingly knew to be inferior.
- jhedwards 7y ago
  I agree with this to an extent because I love yards, but you're talking about the generation that smoked indoors and drove without seat belts. Moving forward a bit, my mother grew up thinking margarine and canned goods were better than fresh food (convenient, cheap, and doesn't go bad!). We have the benefit of better science and a bit of hindsight and can see how the move to lawns has caused pollution on a massive scale and reduced native insect populations. I think at the very least stopping the use of fertilizers and adding wildflower gardens at the borders of your yard is a good plan.
  - merpnderp 7y ago
    Very good point. I have a friend who start putting some of his fields into native grass rather than Bermuda and has seen much more efficient production. Plus the fields are prettier for most of the year.
- dbingham 7y ago
  We do have bugs and snakes. And we love that. The big old black rat snake that shows up every spring has become a marker of time for us. She's pretty docile and friendly, she ignores us and we ignore her. The possums, groundhogs, and racoon are much the same. My niece and nephew love watching the frogs and gold fish in our pond, and exploring the many bugs that have taken up residence in our wild savannah. The mosquites were here before the transformation - they come from the scrapyard up the road - and the changes we've made have actually reduced them in the local area. We've increased the number of frogs, bats, and dragonflies to keep them under control. We don't have ticks to speak of, the possums take care of them. As for hay fever, you get that in suburbia just as bad or worse. You realize that the Yew bushes that everyone loves planting are among the worst producers of allergenic pollen, right? Again, this is part of the aesthetic change we need to make. Realizing that we are a part of and depend upon the natural environment. And figuring out how to fit ourselves into it comfortably, instead of trying to remove ourselves from it or pretend we are somehow above it or separate from it.

dhimes 7y ago

Oh- so you're that neighbor. It's not just a change in your aesthetics that's needed. If you live in a community then it's prudent to get community buy-in. Especially if you have kids. Community reputation means a lot more than some people realize. Source: I've been on both sides of this one.

gbrown 7y ago
People are way too uptight about lawns
vanderZwan 7y ago
Yeah, at the root of this all is a cultural issue more than anything else. Funny enough my mom has let her garden grow wild for years and neighbors have been telling her they love how lush it is from the start, yet somehow don't quite dare to let their own garden free (and before anyone asks, I'm pretty sure it's not a backhanded compliment).
huebomont 7y ago
those people who want a community of only people who think the same way as they do should move out far enough that they don't have neighbors.
- kingdomcome50 7y ago
  Do you think it is unreasonable to want to surround oneself with like-minded individuals? I am not trying to imply the opposite isn't _also_ reasonable.
  - logfromblammo 7y ago
    Yes. It is particularly unreasonable to want to surround yourself with individuals who think grass lawns, kept cut to a uniform length between 4" and 8", are a good idea, and a worthy goal for landscaping. That's a 1946 ideal. In the same way that it was a 1946 ideal to build a residential-only neighborhood away from the big city, with racist covenants and redlines to keep the black people out. It was designed to evoke the manicured lawns of English and French castles, especially the "green carpet" at Versailles. Mount Vernon and Monticello and the White House featured grass lawns. And the mechanical lawnmower opened that aristocratic status symbol up to those without herds of grazing animals or scything slaves to keep it close-cropped. That, and lawn bowling and golf courses, made everyone crazy for grass lawns. Abraham Levitt (of Levittown) and Frederick Law Olmstead then installed a whole complex of unreasonability into generations of Americans. It is reasonable to surround yourself with people, each of whom arranges their affairs such that they need not have similar opinions on the disposition and upkeep of each other's properties. It is reasonable to mind your own business when someone else rips out their useless bermudagrass and replaces it with edible flowering herbs. It is very unreasonable to march up to their door to wave HOA covenants and city landscaping ordinances in their face in an effort to make them replant the grass. Yet that is what neighborhood busybodies do on a regular basis. We can't get rid of them, because they have the 1946 racists on their side, and they got there first, and they built entrenchments--legally, of course, as actual entrenchments would ruin the neighborhood aesthetic. If you want a lawn, buy yourself a nice, square mile of property in the country, build a castle on it, and cut down everything that could hide approaching infantry. Rotate your herds around so that the grazing fodder is kept short. Then you can also have the formal gardens in the back, and maybe also a hedge maze. If you want a lawn in the suburbs, fine, but keep it on your own property and don't try to grow it over your neighbors' properties with some sick legal scheme.
behringer 7y ago
Ah so you're that neighbor that's concerned about what everybody else is doing rather than minding your own business. There's nothing wrong with a yard full of native plants. You should stop trying to keep up with the neighbors and start letting people live their lives without your input.
- kingdomcome50 7y ago
  I don't disagree with the sentiment of your post, but I don't think that is the point the previous poster was making. It's naive to think other people won't make judgments about your choices. Even more so if you think that those judgments can't affect you. I assume you maintain decent personal hygiene/comb your hair/wear appropriate clothing? Why? The reality is that the community around you can and _does_ produce effects material to your life, even if you aren't aware of them. Maybe you weren't invited to that BBQ? Maybe you then missed the opportunity to connect with someone in your field of work? Who knows...
BOBOTWINSTON 7y ago
Assuming you can, you should live around the type of community you want. You sound like you want to live in the HOA controlled landscaping suburb, which is great! OP clearly chose to live somewhere where they wouldn't have neighbors saying these sorts of things. They have put thought into a cool experiment that has apparently paid off for them. Personally, I've never experienced a neighborhood with a strict HOA that I could stand to stick around in. There always seems to be a minority with too much time on their hands playing neighborhood CIA operative and acting like they've just received power for the first time in their lives. I know that might be a little harsh but there always seems to be some variant of this around. I live in a condo now where those people still exist, but it is so much better. They have much less power and visibility.
iamaelephant 7y ago
That horrible neighbour growing native plants and attracting pollinators? The horror of it.
dbingham 7y ago
As it happens, my neighbors are of varying opinions on the matter. The ones I hear from, love it. I'm sure there are those who hate it, but I don't hear from them. But this is how you make change. You need the pathfinders to show how it can be done and start the discussion.

corporate_shi11 7y ago

You're telling people that they "need" to change their subjective appreciation of what constitutes beauty and aesthetic pleasure? I mean this as sincere constructive criticism, you will not win support for sustainability with such a demand. People don't enjoy being told how they "need" to feel about something as personal as aesthetic experience. Focus on how sustainability is good for people and how it will improve their lives. If they prefer orderly, manicured lawns, don't look down at them saying they need to change their aesthetics.

kingkawn 7y ago
Except they need to change their aesthetics
ZeroFries 7y ago
We tell serial killers with an appreciation for the grotesque to cut it out all the time.
- cr0sh 7y ago
  The jokes write themselves, don't they?
jjeaff 7y ago
They also need to recognize that asthetics is not the only factor. You can't kick a soccer ball on a lawn covered with shrubbery. While a natural landscape can be fun for kids to play in, it's not very versatile when you just want space to roll around and have fun with kids. But sure, if you never go outside and never set foot on your lawn, then a maintenance free lawn is fine. All the rednecks in trailer homes where I come from think so too. You could even store your older vehicles that no longer run on the lawn in case you need parts later.

brlewis 7y ago

In New England letting grasses flourish would also provide a home for ticks and Lyme disease. I try to be friendly to pollinators but unfriendly to ticks.

jdhawk 7y ago
Get a couple chickens? I'm only partially joking, they do eat a ton of ticks.
- jawilson2 7y ago
  And possums!
- nkrisc 7y ago
  But then you need coyotes to control the chicken population in your yard.
- jjeaff 7y ago
  Chickens actually don't. They kind of eat indescriminately. But guineas supposedly will hunt the ticks. But be prepared for some weird, loud sounds.
tharne 7y ago
Yup. Prior to spraying our yard, the majority of my family contracted Lyme disease.
dbingham 7y ago
Encourage possums to move in. Indiana has its share of ticks, but we also have plenty of possums. Chickens are another option. This is about learning how to fit ourselves comfortably in to nature - because pretending we can be above, outside, or removed from it is sending us careening towards disaster.

merpnderp 7y ago

I think about the generation that first started having lawns and how they came from farm country and knew all about having native/weed "lawns". The hay fever, the bugs and parasites, the snakes, all this drove them to appreciate a nice fresh lawn your kids could roll around on and enjoy. It's gonna be a hard sell to get people to enjoy something their grandparents overwhelmingly knew to be inferior.

jhedwards 7y ago
I agree with this to an extent because I love yards, but you're talking about the generation that smoked indoors and drove without seat belts. Moving forward a bit, my mother grew up thinking margarine and canned goods were better than fresh food (convenient, cheap, and doesn't go bad!). We have the benefit of better science and a bit of hindsight and can see how the move to lawns has caused pollution on a massive scale and reduced native insect populations. I think at the very least stopping the use of fertilizers and adding wildflower gardens at the borders of your yard is a good plan.
- merpnderp 7y ago
  Very good point. I have a friend who start putting some of his fields into native grass rather than Bermuda and has seen much more efficient production. Plus the fields are prettier for most of the year.
dbingham 7y ago
We do have bugs and snakes. And we love that. The big old black rat snake that shows up every spring has become a marker of time for us. She's pretty docile and friendly, she ignores us and we ignore her. The possums, groundhogs, and racoon are much the same. My niece and nephew love watching the frogs and gold fish in our pond, and exploring the many bugs that have taken up residence in our wild savannah. The mosquites were here before the transformation - they come from the scrapyard up the road - and the changes we've made have actually reduced them in the local area. We've increased the number of frogs, bats, and dragonflies to keep them under control. We don't have ticks to speak of, the possums take care of them. As for hay fever, you get that in suburbia just as bad or worse. You realize that the Yew bushes that everyone loves planting are among the worst producers of allergenic pollen, right? Again, this is part of the aesthetic change we need to make. Realizing that we are a part of and depend upon the natural environment. And figuring out how to fit ourselves into it comfortably, instead of trying to remove ourselves from it or pretend we are somehow above it or separate from it.