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Yeah, and the first act of the Indian intelligentsia was against sati. It's easy to be against the most obviously wrong. My point wasn't that reform hasn't ha

Yeah, and the first act of the Indian intelligentsia was against sati. It's easy to be against the most obviously wrong. My point wasn't that reform hasn't happened, my point was objecting to the casual generalization of China as currently superior to the West in gender equality--by demonstrating the concrete sexism of the past. Having ruled out the past since both West and China infringe gratuitously, what do we really _know_ about gender equality in China in the present day? And I am the sort of person for whom a gender equality rating is strongly influenced by high ratings in tolerance for homosexuality and other non-gender-norm labels.

psykotic 16y ago
> Having ruled out the past since both West and China infringe gratuitously, what do we really _know_ about gender equality in China in the present day? A third of China's millionaires are female. We know concrete facts like that. Guanxi rules business in China, so it would have been very easy to keep women entirely out of the higher echelons had the culture been predisposed to do so. That said, there is still, for example, plenty of low-level sexual harassment against women that wouldn't be tolerated in most of the West.
- Helianthus16 16y ago
  In other words, China has much the same problems as the West and much the same successes. I posted in response to the statement "Much better then it's neighbors and also the West." My point about foot-binding might have been off-topic, actually; I was trying to demonstrate that both cultures have, err, regrets about gender inequality in the past.
  - psykotic 16y ago
    > In other words, China has much the same problems as the West and much the same successes. One has to be careful comparing these things on a linear scale. But yes, I agree. Beyond the context of our immediate discussion, the equality of men and women in China is noteworthy because it contradicts the still-commonplace orientalist conception that Asian women are submissive.
    - Helianthus16 16y ago
      I wasn't using a linear scale; I was in fact rather pointing out that one shouldn't, and even if one did one could hardly conclude China was more advanced. Now we're getting a bit off-topic, so I'm going to close with the idea that women in China could still be considered largely submissive if the ratio is a third instead of a half if one were to really press the viewpoint asking "In what ways could gender equality improve?" but that's a bit of devil's advocacy I'm ready to let fall silent. ;)

psykotic 16y ago

> Having ruled out the past since both West and China infringe gratuitously, what do we really _know_ about gender equality in China in the present day? A third of China's millionaires are female. We know concrete facts like that. Guanxi rules business in China, so it would have been very easy to keep women entirely out of the higher echelons had the culture been predisposed to do so. That said, there is still, for example, plenty of low-level sexual harassment against women that wouldn't be tolerated in most of the West.

Helianthus16 16y ago
In other words, China has much the same problems as the West and much the same successes. I posted in response to the statement "Much better then it's neighbors and also the West." My point about foot-binding might have been off-topic, actually; I was trying to demonstrate that both cultures have, err, regrets about gender inequality in the past.
- psykotic 16y ago
  > In other words, China has much the same problems as the West and much the same successes. One has to be careful comparing these things on a linear scale. But yes, I agree. Beyond the context of our immediate discussion, the equality of men and women in China is noteworthy because it contradicts the still-commonplace orientalist conception that Asian women are submissive.
  - Helianthus16 16y ago
    I wasn't using a linear scale; I was in fact rather pointing out that one shouldn't, and even if one did one could hardly conclude China was more advanced. Now we're getting a bit off-topic, so I'm going to close with the idea that women in China could still be considered largely submissive if the ratio is a third instead of a half if one were to really press the viewpoint asking "In what ways could gender equality improve?" but that's a bit of devil's advocacy I'm ready to let fall silent. ;)