5 ms·

Locked Phones are the norm in Germany too. If this holds true for France too, the vast majority of mobile phones in Europe is being sold locked. I don't know th

by thomasz 16y ago

Locked Phones are the norm in Germany too. If this holds true for France too, the vast majority of mobile phones in Europe is being sold locked. I don't know the details about the "illegal" claim, but normally those things are governed by EU laws, making it somewhat hard to believe that contracts common in the UK and Germany would be considered illegal in the Netherlands or Portugal.

hessenwolf 16y ago
Locked phones are the norm in Ireland.
limmeau 16y ago
Locked as in "locked to one network"? Except for prepaid 20EUR-phones and perhaps the iPhone, which phones in Germany come locked?
- StudyAnimal 16y ago
  Yeah locked to one network which also means you can only get firmware updates when the network specific version is ready, which is often months later, or never. Any subsidized phone purchased with a new contract is locked, as far as I know. But I don't know of many that are hard to unlock.
- thomasz 16y ago
  Phones are usually "bought" for 1€ with a 24 month contract attached. At the end of the contract, the lock is lifted and you can use your phone on all networks.
  - limmeau 16y ago
    I'm aware of the 1EUR contracts (I live in Germany). I was just surprised that most phones in such contracts were supposed to be netlocked. I've bought most of my mobile phones of the past on eBay to use with my prepaid card. I've seen Vodafone, O2 and T-Mobile brandings on them, but I never had to contact the seller because of a netlock problem. I've also found footnotes like "this telephone can only be used on XXX network, wait 24mo or pay us 99EUR" on brochures and paper ads, but only for prepaid contracts. If there is a common practice of netlocking most German 24-month-contract phones, when did it start?
    - semanticist 16y ago
      Those phones will have been unlocked, either officially by the network or unofficially using unlocking tools. eBay isn't a reliable place to get a sense of the realities of the retail mobile phone market.
      - limmeau 16y ago
        Judging from their websites, I. Vodafone's unlocking page explicitly mentions their CallYa prepaid offers and an outdated brand of "VPA" mobile phones and an "MCC" starter pack[1]. There is no sign of a page for the millions of people with a 24-month contract. II. The T-Mobile page for old phones [2] lists several models of cellphones; those I recognize look like typical cheap prepaid phones (e.g. the Siemens C35 is there, but not the more expensive S35 of the same era). Their FAQ[3] says that SIM-locks have to be unlocked, but not which phones are locked. It does explicitly say that the iPhone is SIM-locked, which slightly contradicts the premise that all 24-month contract phones are SIM-locked. III. BASE's FAQ[4] on SIM-locks says that SIM-locks are particularly common with prepaid phones. While it may still well be the case that most contract phones come locked, it surprises me to read so little of it anywhere. 1. https://www.vodafone.de/privat/hilfe-support/hardware-entsperren.html https://www.vodafone.de/privat/hilfe-support/hardware-entspe... 2. http://www.t-mobile.de/sim-lock-entsperren/0,20638,23789-_,00.html http://www.t-mobile.de/sim-lock-entsperren/0,20638,23789-_,0... 3. http://www.t-mobile.de/faq/1,1951,18-_,00.html?vgn_form_encoding=ISO-8859-1&q=sim-lock&query=sim-lock http://www.t-mobile.de/faq/1,1951,18-_,00.html?vgn_form_enco... 4. http://www.base.de/Fuer-Kunden/Faq/SIM_Karte/ http://www.base.de/Fuer-Kunden/Faq/SIM_Karte/
msh 16y ago
I dont know about UK/germany, but in Scandinavia the carrier must unlock the phone for free when the contract is up. The max length of a contract in denmark i 6 months, longer in norway/sweden.
- masklinn 16y ago
  In France, I believe you can get it unlocked after 6 months, even if your contract is for 24.
- rbanffy 16y ago
  In Brazil they must unlock it upon request. The subsidies are tied to the service contract - if you break it, you pay a fine. I believe carriers are no longer bothering to have their phones locked up.
masklinn 16y ago
> but normally those things are governed by EU laws There are EU laws, but each member is free to add its own rules. In Belgium, tied sales are illegal (or were mostly illegal until very recently), and subsidized phones linked to contracts are considered tied. Which makes them illegal in Belgium. And nobody is going to buy a locked phone for the same price as an unlocked one.
- Luc 16y ago
  > In Belgium, tied sales are illegal (or were mostly illegal until very recently), and subsidized phones linked to contracts are considered tied. Which makes them illegal in Belgium. Tied sales ('koppelverkoop') have been declared legal by minister Q since about end of 2009 (1), due to Belgian law conflicting with European law. I'm not sure if the revised Belgian law has gone through parliament already, but Euro law takes precedence anyway. (1) http://www.quickonomie.be/nl/persberichten/29oktober2009-kopverk.jsp?referer=tcm:248-78962-64 http://www.quickonomie.be/nl/persberichten/29oktober2009-kop...
CaptainZapp 16y ago
Locked Phones are the norm in Germany too. You forgot to add that this is only the case for subsidized phones. Nobody stops you from going to Media Markt to purchase an unlocked, uncrippled phone for full price. In addition: SIM locked (i.e. only able to use a designated network) is not quite the same as a crippled phone (like in intentionally crippling the Bluetooth stack to force users to use a crappy service to upload photos for a couple bucks a pop). I can't speak for Germany, but in Switzerland the only SIM locked phones are the ones that you buy together with a pre-payed deal. And then they have to unlock it for you after a couple years. Personally I perceive the development of locking down devices as rather disturbing and I really hope that this trend doesn't swap into European mobile phones. That's why, yeah, I feel that Nokia matters a lot.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- semanticist 16y ago
  Except that Nokia have been locking down handsets at the request of carriers for years (cf, earlier comments about VoIP on Vodafone on certain Nokia handsets). They really do have no special power to say 'no' to those guys. None whatsoever.

by thomasz 16y ago

hessenwolf 16y ago

Locked phones are the norm in Ireland.

limmeau 16y ago

Locked as in "locked to one network"? Except for prepaid 20EUR-phones and perhaps the iPhone, which phones in Germany come locked?

StudyAnimal 16y ago
Yeah locked to one network which also means you can only get firmware updates when the network specific version is ready, which is often months later, or never. Any subsidized phone purchased with a new contract is locked, as far as I know. But I don't know of many that are hard to unlock.
thomasz 16y ago
Phones are usually "bought" for 1€ with a 24 month contract attached. At the end of the contract, the lock is lifted and you can use your phone on all networks.
- limmeau 16y ago
  I'm aware of the 1EUR contracts (I live in Germany). I was just surprised that most phones in such contracts were supposed to be netlocked. I've bought most of my mobile phones of the past on eBay to use with my prepaid card. I've seen Vodafone, O2 and T-Mobile brandings on them, but I never had to contact the seller because of a netlock problem. I've also found footnotes like "this telephone can only be used on XXX network, wait 24mo or pay us 99EUR" on brochures and paper ads, but only for prepaid contracts. If there is a common practice of netlocking most German 24-month-contract phones, when did it start?
  - semanticist 16y ago
    Those phones will have been unlocked, either officially by the network or unofficially using unlocking tools. eBay isn't a reliable place to get a sense of the realities of the retail mobile phone market.
    - limmeau 16y ago
      Judging from their websites, I. Vodafone's unlocking page explicitly mentions their CallYa prepaid offers and an outdated brand of "VPA" mobile phones and an "MCC" starter pack[1]. There is no sign of a page for the millions of people with a 24-month contract. II. The T-Mobile page for old phones [2] lists several models of cellphones; those I recognize look like typical cheap prepaid phones (e.g. the Siemens C35 is there, but not the more expensive S35 of the same era). Their FAQ[3] says that SIM-locks have to be unlocked, but not which phones are locked. It does explicitly say that the iPhone is SIM-locked, which slightly contradicts the premise that all 24-month contract phones are SIM-locked. III. BASE's FAQ[4] on SIM-locks says that SIM-locks are particularly common with prepaid phones. While it may still well be the case that most contract phones come locked, it surprises me to read so little of it anywhere. 1. https://www.vodafone.de/privat/hilfe-support/hardware-entsperren.html https://www.vodafone.de/privat/hilfe-support/hardware-entspe... 2. http://www.t-mobile.de/sim-lock-entsperren/0,20638,23789-_,00.html http://www.t-mobile.de/sim-lock-entsperren/0,20638,23789-_,0... 3. http://www.t-mobile.de/faq/1,1951,18-_,00.html?vgn_form_encoding=ISO-8859-1&q=sim-lock&query=sim-lock http://www.t-mobile.de/faq/1,1951,18-_,00.html?vgn_form_enco... 4. http://www.base.de/Fuer-Kunden/Faq/SIM_Karte/ http://www.base.de/Fuer-Kunden/Faq/SIM_Karte/

msh 16y ago

I dont know about UK/germany, but in Scandinavia the carrier must unlock the phone for free when the contract is up. The max length of a contract in denmark i 6 months, longer in norway/sweden.

masklinn 16y ago
In France, I believe you can get it unlocked after 6 months, even if your contract is for 24.
rbanffy 16y ago
In Brazil they must unlock it upon request. The subsidies are tied to the service contract - if you break it, you pay a fine. I believe carriers are no longer bothering to have their phones locked up.

masklinn 16y ago

> but normally those things are governed by EU laws There are EU laws, but each member is free to add its own rules. In Belgium, tied sales are illegal (or were mostly illegal until very recently), and subsidized phones linked to contracts are considered tied. Which makes them illegal in Belgium. And nobody is going to buy a locked phone for the same price as an unlocked one.

Luc 16y ago
> In Belgium, tied sales are illegal (or were mostly illegal until very recently), and subsidized phones linked to contracts are considered tied. Which makes them illegal in Belgium. Tied sales ('koppelverkoop') have been declared legal by minister Q since about end of 2009 (1), due to Belgian law conflicting with European law. I'm not sure if the revised Belgian law has gone through parliament already, but Euro law takes precedence anyway. (1) http://www.quickonomie.be/nl/persberichten/29oktober2009-kopverk.jsp?referer=tcm:248-78962-64 http://www.quickonomie.be/nl/persberichten/29oktober2009-kop...

CaptainZapp 16y ago

Locked Phones are the norm in Germany too. You forgot to add that this is only the case for subsidized phones. Nobody stops you from going to Media Markt to purchase an unlocked, uncrippled phone for full price. In addition: SIM locked (i.e. only able to use a designated network) is not quite the same as a crippled phone (like in intentionally crippling the Bluetooth stack to force users to use a crappy service to upload photos for a couple bucks a pop). I can't speak for Germany, but in Switzerland the only SIM locked phones are the ones that you buy together with a pre-payed deal. And then they have to unlock it for you after a couple years. Personally I perceive the development of locking down devices as rather disturbing and I really hope that this trend doesn't swap into European mobile phones. That's why, yeah, I feel that Nokia matters a lot.

deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
semanticist 16y ago
Except that Nokia have been locking down handsets at the request of carriers for years (cf, earlier comments about VoIP on Vodafone on certain Nokia handsets). They really do have no special power to say 'no' to those guys. None whatsoever.