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Why do lawns even factor into the equation when the reality is that industry, farms, etc. own the majority of all water usage? I live in a desert area and hate

Why do lawns even factor into the equation when the reality is that industry, farms, etc. own the majority of all water usage? I live in a desert area and hate seeing lawns watered in the middle of the summer but its impact seems trivial. Agriculture is a major user of ground and surface water in the United States, accounting for approximately 80 percent of the Nation's consumptive water use and over 90 percent in many Western States.[0] Households only make up a small percentage of the total water consumption worldwide[1]. Recommendations to cut foods that require an inordinate amount of water per calorie are probably better served(if you care about freshwater consumption) and it appears the simplest way to reduce this would be to cut out bovine meat.[2] [0] - https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/farm-practices-management/irrigation-water-use/ https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/farm-practices-management/ir... [1] - https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/water-in-water-out/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/water-in-water-ou... [2] - https://waterfootprint.org/en/water-footprint/product-water-footprint/water-footprint-crop-and-animal-products/ https://waterfootprint.org/en/water-footprint/product-water-...

Pfhreak 7y ago
What do you think the largest crop in the US is? Hint: Turf grass. Figure all the land used to grow lawns plus all the land used to grow grass seed plus all the land to grow sod... It's absolutely staggering amount of land, whole integer multiples of the land we use for corn or any other irrigated crop.
- sixstringtheory 7y ago
  I couldn’t quite believe this so I looked it up: https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_55d0dc06e4b07addcb43435d https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_55d0dc06e4b07addcb43435d Link to the actual paper, from 2005, is in the article.
  - sokoloff 7y ago
    Paper cited suggests 164K km^2 (about 40 million acres) of total turfgrass. USDA estimate for corn crop in the US is almost 92 million acres. Note that the paper claims that turfgrass is 3x larger than the largest irrigated crop, not that it's larger than all crops. Only about 20% of US corn is irrigated (~80% is rain watered only). [1] - https://www.isprs.org/proceedings/XXXVI/8-W27/milesi.pdf https://www.isprs.org/proceedings/XXXVI/8-W27/milesi.pdf [2] - https://www.usda.gov/media/blog/2019/07/29/corn-americas-largest-crop-2019 https://www.usda.gov/media/blog/2019/07/29/corn-americas-lar...
agency 7y ago
It doesn’t sound like the suggestion was made on the basis of water usage. Full quote FTA: > “Get rid of your lawns,” she said. “Lawns are total biological deserts. It’s just grass with pesticides. The way it’s grown does not support a lot of biodiversity.”
- thaumasiotes 7y ago
  It is not obvious to me why I'd want my front yard to be teeming with insects.
  - crawfordcomeaux 7y ago
    Because your world depends on them.
    - thaumasiotes 7y ago
      Get back to me when you can actually show that my world depends on a variety of insects contained within a single square mile.
      - aquaticsunset 7y ago
        Your world doesn’t see much change if you open a can of Freon on the front porch every day. But if doing that was as pervasive as owning a lawn? You’d bet[1]. [1] https://www.epa.gov/ods-phaseout https://www.epa.gov/ods-phaseout
      - crawfordcomeaux 7y ago
        Culture matters. You don't exist in a void. You, anyone you live with, anyone who sees your yard, and anyone who hears your views on it all carry a personal culture. You are responsible for yours and who it infects. Is yours a sustainable one? If not, you're likely programming the world to die off. It's not only about you. It's about the ripple effects of you and a greater understanding of responsibility in the face of culture as a force to reckon with.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
Jedd 7y ago
> ... would be to cut out bovine meat. The somewhat ludicrous figure provided at that link - of 15,415 litres of water per kilogram of meat - is oft' cited by vegetarians and vegans, but doesn't bear scrutiny. CAFOs are undeniably bad for everyone (the land, the animals, and the consumers) and while they doubtless skew the stats, those grossly artificial environments are clearly not locking up 15 tonnes of water per kilogram of meat. Something closer to natural - say pastured raised cattle - are using much more reasonable volumes of water, especially at low stocking rates. But the whole 'using water' claim is muddied. The water the animal drinks passes through it and into the ground. Irrigation of the pasture, if performed, can't be thought of as 'lost' water either, as some will go underground, some will be lost as transpiration / evaporation, and some will be stored in the plant to then be consumed by the animal (qv). > Why do lawns even factor into the equation when the reality is ... Because lawns are, for most people, for most of the time, pointless wastes of land, water, pesticides, and energy. There are myriad (good) reasons to surrender some lawn and instead grow some of your own food -- TFA just pointed out one of the less obvious ones.
- vosper 7y ago
  > But the whole 'using water' claim is muddied. The water the animal drinks passes through it and into the ground. Yes, it's not like the water is destroyed. It may be diverted from directly flowing into a river, sure, and perhaps goes straight back to the atmosphere rather than into the sea via evaporation, exhalation, and transpiration... but it's not gone.
  - lostlogin 7y ago
    What the cow returns trashes streams as it’s high in nitrates. It’s incredibly damaging. New Zealand is a great example of this and the huge expansion of our dairy industry has done huge harm.
    - bluGill 7y ago
      Only when the cow is allowed to go in the stream. Have the cow go even a few meters away from the stream and it is great fertilizer for the grass the cow eats.
reportgunner 7y ago
I would like to point out that getting rid of your lawn, using it to plant your own vegetables and eating them is a way to cut down on eating bovine meat.
01100011 7y ago
Sure, if you save water they'll just build a new golf course and someone else will use the water. But at least you don't have to pay for the water. You also get a more interesting yard that supports wildlife.
jonstewart 7y ago
Regarding why lawns even factor, bear in mind TFA is from a media station and the advice to get rid of one’s lawn is likely targeted to people as a small tactical contribution to make. When you get people to make small changes like this, they’re more likely to support big changes in polls and at the ballot box. That’s the lever by which one moves government and industry.
bluGill 7y ago
Lawns use far more fertilizer than agriculture per unit area. Many small suburban laws get as much chemicals as a farmer will put on many acres. The farmer is a businessman, excess fertilizer is wasted money off the bottom line, thus the farmer tries to apply only what is needed, and keep it on the field not run off into a stream (this is a very hard problem, I'm not claiming farmers are fully successful, but they make an effort and research shows they are doing okay). The suburban lawn gets excess chemical with no thought about will it run off. Note that the suburban lawn does not need chemicals. If you want green colored lawn you need them. If you want green as in good for the environment a lawn without chemical input does fairly well, but it won't look as nice.
rtkwe 7y ago
The article isn't even about water usage! It's about lawns being terrible habitats for insects...
CabSauce 7y ago
"Why do lawns even factor into the equation... water usage?" That's not what this article is about at all. But that's cool, I guess.

Pfhreak 7y ago

What do you think the largest crop in the US is? Hint: Turf grass. Figure all the land used to grow lawns plus all the land used to grow grass seed plus all the land to grow sod... It's absolutely staggering amount of land, whole integer multiples of the land we use for corn or any other irrigated crop.

sixstringtheory 7y ago
I couldn’t quite believe this so I looked it up: https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_55d0dc06e4b07addcb43435d https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_55d0dc06e4b07addcb43435d Link to the actual paper, from 2005, is in the article.
- sokoloff 7y ago
  Paper cited suggests 164K km^2 (about 40 million acres) of total turfgrass. USDA estimate for corn crop in the US is almost 92 million acres. Note that the paper claims that turfgrass is 3x larger than the largest irrigated crop, not that it's larger than all crops. Only about 20% of US corn is irrigated (~80% is rain watered only). [1] - https://www.isprs.org/proceedings/XXXVI/8-W27/milesi.pdf https://www.isprs.org/proceedings/XXXVI/8-W27/milesi.pdf [2] - https://www.usda.gov/media/blog/2019/07/29/corn-americas-largest-crop-2019 https://www.usda.gov/media/blog/2019/07/29/corn-americas-lar...

agency 7y ago

It doesn’t sound like the suggestion was made on the basis of water usage. Full quote FTA: > “Get rid of your lawns,” she said. “Lawns are total biological deserts. It’s just grass with pesticides. The way it’s grown does not support a lot of biodiversity.”

thaumasiotes 7y ago
It is not obvious to me why I'd want my front yard to be teeming with insects.
- crawfordcomeaux 7y ago
  Because your world depends on them.
  - thaumasiotes 7y ago
    Get back to me when you can actually show that my world depends on a variety of insects contained within a single square mile.
    - aquaticsunset 7y ago
      Your world doesn’t see much change if you open a can of Freon on the front porch every day. But if doing that was as pervasive as owning a lawn? You’d bet[1]. [1] https://www.epa.gov/ods-phaseout https://www.epa.gov/ods-phaseout
    - crawfordcomeaux 7y ago
      Culture matters. You don't exist in a void. You, anyone you live with, anyone who sees your yard, and anyone who hears your views on it all carry a personal culture. You are responsible for yours and who it infects. Is yours a sustainable one? If not, you're likely programming the world to die off. It's not only about you. It's about the ripple effects of you and a greater understanding of responsibility in the face of culture as a force to reckon with.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

Jedd 7y ago

> ... would be to cut out bovine meat. The somewhat ludicrous figure provided at that link - of 15,415 litres of water per kilogram of meat - is oft' cited by vegetarians and vegans, but doesn't bear scrutiny. CAFOs are undeniably bad for everyone (the land, the animals, and the consumers) and while they doubtless skew the stats, those grossly artificial environments are clearly not locking up 15 tonnes of water per kilogram of meat. Something closer to natural - say pastured raised cattle - are using much more reasonable volumes of water, especially at low stocking rates. But the whole 'using water' claim is muddied. The water the animal drinks passes through it and into the ground. Irrigation of the pasture, if performed, can't be thought of as 'lost' water either, as some will go underground, some will be lost as transpiration / evaporation, and some will be stored in the plant to then be consumed by the animal (qv). > Why do lawns even factor into the equation when the reality is ... Because lawns are, for most people, for most of the time, pointless wastes of land, water, pesticides, and energy. There are myriad (good) reasons to surrender some lawn and instead grow some of your own food -- TFA just pointed out one of the less obvious ones.

vosper 7y ago
> But the whole 'using water' claim is muddied. The water the animal drinks passes through it and into the ground. Yes, it's not like the water is destroyed. It may be diverted from directly flowing into a river, sure, and perhaps goes straight back to the atmosphere rather than into the sea via evaporation, exhalation, and transpiration... but it's not gone.
- lostlogin 7y ago
  What the cow returns trashes streams as it’s high in nitrates. It’s incredibly damaging. New Zealand is a great example of this and the huge expansion of our dairy industry has done huge harm.
  - bluGill 7y ago
    Only when the cow is allowed to go in the stream. Have the cow go even a few meters away from the stream and it is great fertilizer for the grass the cow eats.

reportgunner 7y ago

I would like to point out that getting rid of your lawn, using it to plant your own vegetables and eating them is a way to cut down on eating bovine meat.

01100011 7y ago

Sure, if you save water they'll just build a new golf course and someone else will use the water. But at least you don't have to pay for the water. You also get a more interesting yard that supports wildlife.

jonstewart 7y ago

Regarding why lawns even factor, bear in mind TFA is from a media station and the advice to get rid of one’s lawn is likely targeted to people as a small tactical contribution to make. When you get people to make small changes like this, they’re more likely to support big changes in polls and at the ballot box. That’s the lever by which one moves government and industry.

bluGill 7y ago

Lawns use far more fertilizer than agriculture per unit area. Many small suburban laws get as much chemicals as a farmer will put on many acres. The farmer is a businessman, excess fertilizer is wasted money off the bottom line, thus the farmer tries to apply only what is needed, and keep it on the field not run off into a stream (this is a very hard problem, I'm not claiming farmers are fully successful, but they make an effort and research shows they are doing okay). The suburban lawn gets excess chemical with no thought about will it run off. Note that the suburban lawn does not need chemicals. If you want green colored lawn you need them. If you want green as in good for the environment a lawn without chemical input does fairly well, but it won't look as nice.

rtkwe 7y ago

The article isn't even about water usage! It's about lawns being terrible habitats for insects...

CabSauce 7y ago

"Why do lawns even factor into the equation... water usage?" That's not what this article is about at all. But that's cool, I guess.