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If this is for real, _everyone_ I know is getting completely screwed. I have a hard time believing any of these numbers. If I earned any of these amounts for 2

If this is for real, _everyone_ I know is getting completely screwed. I have a hard time believing any of these numbers. If I earned any of these amounts for 2-3 years, I could live off the interest for the rest of my life.

beisner 7y ago
They are most certainly real.
eclipxe 7y ago
This is for real.
avalys 7y ago
Absolutely real.
rexarex 7y ago
It’s for real
draw_down 7y ago
If you're getting screwed, get out there and stop getting screwed! "I never sat back feeling sorry for myself. If you don't give me heaven, I'll raise hell" - Jay Z
glitchc 7y ago
These are not salaries. It’s total comp. My total comp. calculating pension and benefits in the Great White North is similar, and that’s govt. to boot. Total comp is always a highly misleading number.
- pxx 7y ago
  Your pension and benefits are not immediately liquid and wouldn't be included in this comparison. RSUs from publicly listed companies, on the other hand...
- eclipxe 7y ago
  These numbers aren't including benefits (medical, dental, 401k match, etc). These are salary, RSU, bonus.
- andreilys 7y ago
  Really? I’m surprised. Every offer I’ve gotten in Canada has been 20-30% of US offers (and this is in high CoL cities like Vancouver and Toronto)
- bostonfincs 7y ago
  This is total comp outside pension/benefits. So solely salary + bonus + RSU. Only income earned directly not benefits.
- joshuamorton 7y ago
  If you added benefits to these, it would likely be an additional 50K a year (healthcare, 401k match, other incidentals).
destitude 7y ago
Many companies hope that engineers don't know their value or that they simply aren't willing to relocate near one of the tech hubs. A trick of startups is to woo you with stock options which almost never amount to any value. You also have to watch out for REMOTE work where many companies seem to place an excessive $ on the "privilege" of working from home.
- burfog 7y ago
  I'm willing to relocate for better pay so that I can afford nice things. I want to have a place where I have room for a chicken coop (30 chickens) and a 1-acre fish pond. I'm willing to commute by car for a maximum of 15 minutes. A slightly longer commute might be OK if I can afford to commute by horse and the employer doesn't mind. Which tech hub should I move to?
  - tlb 7y ago
    You can find this in many places around the Bay Area outside SF. I have 5 acres and keep chickens in Woodside, and it's 15-20 minutes drive to several big tech companies in Palo Alto and Redwood City. Some people keep horses here.
    - syedkarim 7y ago
      5 acres that is 15 minutes from Palo Alto/Mountain View? How much does that cost?
      - TulliusCicero 7y ago
        Yeah seriously. Just the land for a regular house lot can easily be over a million dollars in the area, and 1 acre can hold like six of those. So five acres...like thirty million dollars? Unless there's some weird situation I've never heard of.
        smm2000 7y ago
        5 acres in area where minimum lot is 5 acres is much cheaper than in area where minimum is 5k sq ft. In most areas you can’t subdivide lot - that’s the reason houses in Atherton on huge lots are so cheap (relatively).
HenryKissinger 7y ago
Here in Canada entry level SWEs are getting paid 60k-70k CAD (45k-55k USD). It's worse in Europe. These numbers are absolutely mind boggling. Even with a higher cost of living and California income taxes, you still have at least 100k of free money to invest. It's no wonder so many people apply for jobs at FAANGs. A job at a FAANG is practically a ticket to early retirement.
- chillacy 7y ago
  At one point I fancied the idea of working abroad for fun, I could learn a language and try something new. The income disparity was far too great compared to the US, so I never did it. The one exception: Google pays pretty well in Switzerland, but I hear it's hard to land.
  - shantly 7y ago
    Same. We've toyed with the idea of moving permanently if only because healthcare here's so bad and doesn't seem likely to get significantly better any time soon (the most "left" ideas beginning to creep into the Overton window still don't address prices seriously within the next decade). However, as a developer making way under FAANG comp levels, I'd still struggle to make more than like 2/3 what I do here, in Europe. Before taxes.
- perl4ever 7y ago
  NY state pays all IT people (with a 4-year degree) $56K to start currently. Of course, you get a pension(!) and good health insurance. Private sector companies often don't pay much higher, and have much worse benefits.
  - lotsofpulp 7y ago
    IT is not comparable to SWE.
    - perl4ever 7y ago
      All of the latter are a subset of the former in this context. And of course, many people go from, say, QA, help desk, 3rd tier support, or programmer/analyst to developer.
almost_usual 7y ago
Most of the comp is RSU and bonus. If you’re working for one of the listed companies and aren’t in the pay band you’re getting screwed.
chubot 7y ago
You might want to look at Is dev compensation bimodal? https://danluu.com/bimodal-compensation/ https://danluu.com/bimodal-compensation/ i.e. can you draw a line between devs who get paid a lot and those who don't? I wish there was a date on this article (and all blogs) but it looks like it's from 2015. The conclusion isn't crisp, but to me it's plausible that the trends have continued since 2015, e.g. maybe it's more bimodal 5 years later (though I haven't really been paying attention). I would be interested in a followup.
fakename11 7y ago
My friend got 260K out of school at Google. I got slightly less.
TomVDB 7y ago
If you want to know the lay of the land in terms of compensation in the Bay Area, put your house on the market as a rental. You'll get to see the offer letters from Google, Facebook, Apple etc. It was enlightening, and made me go to my manager to ask for more. The number on levels.fyi closely match what I saw in those offer letters.
- kirubakaran 7y ago
  That's a very clever way to see real paystubs! Landlords get too much info in my opinion, especially commercial landlords. I wish there were something like credit scores for income. You can share your paystubs with that "income score" company which will then just tell the landlord if the rent is less than 25% of your income and hence you can afford it.
TulliusCicero 7y ago
It's real. I mod r/cscareerquestions and work at Google. You can search the subreddit for "salary sharing" and find our threads where people are sharing various offers.

beisner 7y ago

They are most certainly real.

eclipxe 7y ago

This is for real.

avalys 7y ago

Absolutely real.

rexarex 7y ago

It’s for real

draw_down 7y ago

If you're getting screwed, get out there and stop getting screwed! "I never sat back feeling sorry for myself. If you don't give me heaven, I'll raise hell" - Jay Z

glitchc 7y ago

These are not salaries. It’s total comp. My total comp. calculating pension and benefits in the Great White North is similar, and that’s govt. to boot. Total comp is always a highly misleading number.

pxx 7y ago
Your pension and benefits are not immediately liquid and wouldn't be included in this comparison. RSUs from publicly listed companies, on the other hand...
eclipxe 7y ago
These numbers aren't including benefits (medical, dental, 401k match, etc). These are salary, RSU, bonus.
andreilys 7y ago
Really? I’m surprised. Every offer I’ve gotten in Canada has been 20-30% of US offers (and this is in high CoL cities like Vancouver and Toronto)
bostonfincs 7y ago
This is total comp outside pension/benefits. So solely salary + bonus + RSU. Only income earned directly not benefits.
joshuamorton 7y ago
If you added benefits to these, it would likely be an additional 50K a year (healthcare, 401k match, other incidentals).

destitude 7y ago

Many companies hope that engineers don't know their value or that they simply aren't willing to relocate near one of the tech hubs. A trick of startups is to woo you with stock options which almost never amount to any value. You also have to watch out for REMOTE work where many companies seem to place an excessive $ on the "privilege" of working from home.

burfog 7y ago
I'm willing to relocate for better pay so that I can afford nice things. I want to have a place where I have room for a chicken coop (30 chickens) and a 1-acre fish pond. I'm willing to commute by car for a maximum of 15 minutes. A slightly longer commute might be OK if I can afford to commute by horse and the employer doesn't mind. Which tech hub should I move to?
- tlb 7y ago
  You can find this in many places around the Bay Area outside SF. I have 5 acres and keep chickens in Woodside, and it's 15-20 minutes drive to several big tech companies in Palo Alto and Redwood City. Some people keep horses here.
  - syedkarim 7y ago
    5 acres that is 15 minutes from Palo Alto/Mountain View? How much does that cost?
    - TulliusCicero 7y ago
      Yeah seriously. Just the land for a regular house lot can easily be over a million dollars in the area, and 1 acre can hold like six of those. So five acres...like thirty million dollars? Unless there's some weird situation I've never heard of.
      - smm2000 7y ago
        5 acres in area where minimum lot is 5 acres is much cheaper than in area where minimum is 5k sq ft. In most areas you can’t subdivide lot - that’s the reason houses in Atherton on huge lots are so cheap (relatively).

HenryKissinger 7y ago

Here in Canada entry level SWEs are getting paid 60k-70k CAD (45k-55k USD). It's worse in Europe. These numbers are absolutely mind boggling. Even with a higher cost of living and California income taxes, you still have at least 100k of free money to invest. It's no wonder so many people apply for jobs at FAANGs. A job at a FAANG is practically a ticket to early retirement.

chillacy 7y ago
At one point I fancied the idea of working abroad for fun, I could learn a language and try something new. The income disparity was far too great compared to the US, so I never did it. The one exception: Google pays pretty well in Switzerland, but I hear it's hard to land.
- shantly 7y ago
  Same. We've toyed with the idea of moving permanently if only because healthcare here's so bad and doesn't seem likely to get significantly better any time soon (the most "left" ideas beginning to creep into the Overton window still don't address prices seriously within the next decade). However, as a developer making way under FAANG comp levels, I'd still struggle to make more than like 2/3 what I do here, in Europe. Before taxes.
perl4ever 7y ago
NY state pays all IT people (with a 4-year degree) $56K to start currently. Of course, you get a pension(!) and good health insurance. Private sector companies often don't pay much higher, and have much worse benefits.
- lotsofpulp 7y ago
  IT is not comparable to SWE.
  - perl4ever 7y ago
    All of the latter are a subset of the former in this context. And of course, many people go from, say, QA, help desk, 3rd tier support, or programmer/analyst to developer.

almost_usual 7y ago

Most of the comp is RSU and bonus. If you’re working for one of the listed companies and aren’t in the pay band you’re getting screwed.

chubot 7y ago

You might want to look at Is dev compensation bimodal? https://danluu.com/bimodal-compensation/ https://danluu.com/bimodal-compensation/ i.e. can you draw a line between devs who get paid a lot and those who don't? I wish there was a date on this article (and all blogs) but it looks like it's from 2015. The conclusion isn't crisp, but to me it's plausible that the trends have continued since 2015, e.g. maybe it's more bimodal 5 years later (though I haven't really been paying attention). I would be interested in a followup.

fakename11 7y ago

My friend got 260K out of school at Google. I got slightly less.

TomVDB 7y ago

If you want to know the lay of the land in terms of compensation in the Bay Area, put your house on the market as a rental. You'll get to see the offer letters from Google, Facebook, Apple etc. It was enlightening, and made me go to my manager to ask for more. The number on levels.fyi closely match what I saw in those offer letters.

kirubakaran 7y ago
That's a very clever way to see real paystubs! Landlords get too much info in my opinion, especially commercial landlords. I wish there were something like credit scores for income. You can share your paystubs with that "income score" company which will then just tell the landlord if the rent is less than 25% of your income and hence you can afford it.

TulliusCicero 7y ago

It's real. I mod r/cscareerquestions and work at Google. You can search the subreddit for "salary sharing" and find our threads where people are sharing various offers.