5 ms·

I’d love to see my “progressive” city end setback laws, which require me to keep 15 ft of either grass or dirt in front of my house.

happytoexplain 7y ago
Are you saying such laws are progressive or not progressive?
- labster 7y ago
  They’re saying people don’t follow their political labels when it comes to building codes. Progressive environmentalists might advocate grass over density. There was a recent article about conservatives freaking out about a proposal to repeal a regulation prohibiting duplexes. It got framed as an attack on single family homes and our lifestyle. But, we’re all stuck with this until we unlock Intellectual Integrity off the SMAC tech tree.
jws 7y ago
Setback laws are usually about not building a structure too close to a lot line. On the front, a minimal setback keeps the street from becoming a canyon. Larger setbacks are more of a look and feel thing for a neighborhood. Front setbacks may also be governed by adjacent houses to encourage all the fronts to line up. It’s tidier that way.
- 0xB31B1B 7y ago
  setbacks are about reducing FAR so people need to buy a lot more land than they need to build a home to live in. It helps keep property values high and land as a scarce resource.
  - lysium 7y ago
    That is a consequence, not the intention. I don’t see how you can avoid street canyons otherwise.
    - PeterSmit 7y ago
      What is wrong with that?
    - Thlom 7y ago
      Don't you have to seek municipality approval for structures? At least where I'm from we have to seek approval from the municipality to build anything bigger than a certain size on our own land. Anything that is close to a public street or neighbor also have to be approved.
      - zip1234 7y ago
        When you say seek approval, in the US at least there is 'by right' zoning. Meaning that anything can be built by right as long as it follows certain rules. The approval is generally not an approval so much as a check to make sure it is following the rules. Anything not in the rules usually has to go through a special approval of a planning commission and neighbors may need to ok it.
    - zip1234 7y ago
      Is a street canyon a bad thing? I don't think so. Perhaps if the street is only for cars, but many of the most treasured streets are 'street canyons'. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shambles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shambles for an example
- mamon 7y ago
  Old towns in southern Europe (Spain, Italy) were deliberately built so that streets become "canyons" - they are very narrow, and buildings are tightly packed. It helps make 100+ degrees temperatures in summer bearable.
Polylactic_acid 7y ago
Is it really limited to just grass/dirt or is it simply that you can not place buildings on that space? Could you plant trees there?
pkaye 7y ago
Some bay area cities encourage replacing with native or drought tolerant plants. They give a small rebate if you convert from grass to any of the above. They also offer free courses to learn about this topic.
smt88 7y ago
Which city is this? I've only ever heard of rules like this coming from HOAs. Are you claiming that you're not allowed to plant trees or a native ground cover?
- bandrami 7y ago
  Strongtowns did a rundown on it [1]. It's often a feature of midsize town zoning laws, not just HOA busybodyness. [1] https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2017/7/28/grassy-lawns-exist-to-prove-youre-not-a-peasant https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2017/7/28/grassy-lawns-e...
  - petecox 7y ago
    Here in Australia, the local council expects you to keep the nature strip, or verge, between the road and the pavement looking presentable but anything behind the front fence is your own creation. And so the 'front lawn' is my vegie patch. Potatoes are dead easy to grow from eyes and pumpkins (winter squash) self-germinate from compost. This summer I'm experimenting with Jerusalem artichokes, which sprouted from 70¢ worth of store-bought tubers. All you need is water and a spade - and no lawn police, I guess.

happytoexplain 7y ago

Are you saying such laws are progressive or not progressive?

labster 7y ago
They’re saying people don’t follow their political labels when it comes to building codes. Progressive environmentalists might advocate grass over density. There was a recent article about conservatives freaking out about a proposal to repeal a regulation prohibiting duplexes. It got framed as an attack on single family homes and our lifestyle. But, we’re all stuck with this until we unlock Intellectual Integrity off the SMAC tech tree.

jws 7y ago

Setback laws are usually about not building a structure too close to a lot line. On the front, a minimal setback keeps the street from becoming a canyon. Larger setbacks are more of a look and feel thing for a neighborhood. Front setbacks may also be governed by adjacent houses to encourage all the fronts to line up. It’s tidier that way.

0xB31B1B 7y ago
setbacks are about reducing FAR so people need to buy a lot more land than they need to build a home to live in. It helps keep property values high and land as a scarce resource.
- lysium 7y ago
  That is a consequence, not the intention. I don’t see how you can avoid street canyons otherwise.
  - PeterSmit 7y ago
    What is wrong with that?
  - Thlom 7y ago
    Don't you have to seek municipality approval for structures? At least where I'm from we have to seek approval from the municipality to build anything bigger than a certain size on our own land. Anything that is close to a public street or neighbor also have to be approved.
    - zip1234 7y ago
      When you say seek approval, in the US at least there is 'by right' zoning. Meaning that anything can be built by right as long as it follows certain rules. The approval is generally not an approval so much as a check to make sure it is following the rules. Anything not in the rules usually has to go through a special approval of a planning commission and neighbors may need to ok it.
  - zip1234 7y ago
    Is a street canyon a bad thing? I don't think so. Perhaps if the street is only for cars, but many of the most treasured streets are 'street canyons'. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shambles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shambles for an example
mamon 7y ago
Old towns in southern Europe (Spain, Italy) were deliberately built so that streets become "canyons" - they are very narrow, and buildings are tightly packed. It helps make 100+ degrees temperatures in summer bearable.

Polylactic_acid 7y ago

Is it really limited to just grass/dirt or is it simply that you can not place buildings on that space? Could you plant trees there?

pkaye 7y ago

Some bay area cities encourage replacing with native or drought tolerant plants. They give a small rebate if you convert from grass to any of the above. They also offer free courses to learn about this topic.

smt88 7y ago

Which city is this? I've only ever heard of rules like this coming from HOAs. Are you claiming that you're not allowed to plant trees or a native ground cover?

bandrami 7y ago
Strongtowns did a rundown on it [1]. It's often a feature of midsize town zoning laws, not just HOA busybodyness. [1] https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2017/7/28/grassy-lawns-exist-to-prove-youre-not-a-peasant https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2017/7/28/grassy-lawns-e...
- petecox 7y ago
  Here in Australia, the local council expects you to keep the nature strip, or verge, between the road and the pavement looking presentable but anything behind the front fence is your own creation. And so the 'front lawn' is my vegie patch. Potatoes are dead easy to grow from eyes and pumpkins (winter squash) self-germinate from compost. This summer I'm experimenting with Jerusalem artichokes, which sprouted from 70¢ worth of store-bought tubers. All you need is water and a spade - and no lawn police, I guess.