3 ms·

If it makes you feel better, op is not representative of developers in US. He is not even representative of people at Google or other big tech. Most people do w

If it makes you feel better, op is not representative of developers in US. He is not even representative of people at Google or other big tech. Most people do work their ass off, some even on weekends and holidays. You are looking at a "lottery" winner and thinking life is unfair to you. In this case its not even lottery because such slacking off in your most productive young years severely limits your career choices when the party ends. Outside of top 10 big tech, comp is not too different from what you get in Europe.

zerr 7y ago
Europe is big and very diverse place. Uber driver in midwest (US) makes more than a senior dev in Spain, Italy or Greece.
- JohnBooty 7y ago
  An Uber driver in the midwest US can die from a simple treatable disease (or ruin himself financially) because he might not have health insurance. Europe is big and very diverse place. Uber driver in midwest (US) makes more than a senior dev in Spain, Italy or Greece. You can't just do a simple currency conversion to compare them, because the costs of living are very different. A senior dev in these countries will have a nice standard of living. Much better than an Uber driver in the midwest US. As an Uber driver you would be very lucky to even make money considered "middle class."
  - zerr 7y ago
    OK, broken US healthcare aside, even in above mentioned countries - uber/taxi drivers income is quite comparable to devs salaries.
    - JohnBooty 7y ago
      I don't think you are correct. Uber drivers make only slightly more than what is considered a living wage in most cities. For example, an Uber driver makes around $20 per hour in NYC. So maybe $40,000 per year. Source: https://gridwise.io/how-much-do-rideshare-drivers-make-in-2019 https://gridwise.io/how-much-do-rideshare-drivers-make-in-20... However, that is NOT a lot of money. Is $15 an hour enough to live on? Not in New York City. MIT researchers’ estimates of a true living wage in New York City range from $16.14 an hour for a single adult, to $21.55 for two working parents with two children, to $39.93 for a single parent with two children. Source: https://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/ny-oped-fix-nycs-broken-living-wage-law-20181004-story.html https://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/ny-oped-fix-nycs-broken-... Keep in mind that a one-bedroom apartment in NYC costs about $3,000 a month!!! An Uber driver would work 150 hours a month just to pay for that! He would still need to buy food, clothing, healthcare, etc. This person cannot remotely think of raising children as an Uber driver. Somebody making $40,000 per year in NYC would probably need to share housing with roommates or family. Source: https://ny.curbed.com/2019/6/3/18650949/nyc-rent-prices-zumper-report https://ny.curbed.com/2019/6/3/18650949/nyc-rent-prices-zump... Are developers in other countries able to afford their own apartments? It looks like senior developers in Athens, Greece make about €36,500/yr. Source: https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/athens-senior-software-engineer-salary-SRCH_IL.0,6_IM1017_KO7,31.htm https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/athens-senior-software-en... However, cost of living in Athens is so much lower, it is not even funny. It looks like a 1BR apartment costs more like €500-800. This seems easy to afford for a senior developer. At least, it is much easier than our poor Uber driver in NYC. Of course, I just picked Athens as one example. But are you telling me there are places in Europe where senior developers can't even afford their own apartments?!

zerr 7y ago

Europe is big and very diverse place. Uber driver in midwest (US) makes more than a senior dev in Spain, Italy or Greece.

JohnBooty 7y ago
An Uber driver in the midwest US can die from a simple treatable disease (or ruin himself financially) because he might not have health insurance. Europe is big and very diverse place. Uber driver in midwest (US) makes more than a senior dev in Spain, Italy or Greece. You can't just do a simple currency conversion to compare them, because the costs of living are very different. A senior dev in these countries will have a nice standard of living. Much better than an Uber driver in the midwest US. As an Uber driver you would be very lucky to even make money considered "middle class."
- zerr 7y ago
  OK, broken US healthcare aside, even in above mentioned countries - uber/taxi drivers income is quite comparable to devs salaries.
  - JohnBooty 7y ago
    I don't think you are correct. Uber drivers make only slightly more than what is considered a living wage in most cities. For example, an Uber driver makes around $20 per hour in NYC. So maybe $40,000 per year. Source: https://gridwise.io/how-much-do-rideshare-drivers-make-in-2019 https://gridwise.io/how-much-do-rideshare-drivers-make-in-20... However, that is NOT a lot of money. Is $15 an hour enough to live on? Not in New York City. MIT researchers’ estimates of a true living wage in New York City range from $16.14 an hour for a single adult, to $21.55 for two working parents with two children, to $39.93 for a single parent with two children. Source: https://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/ny-oped-fix-nycs-broken-living-wage-law-20181004-story.html https://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/ny-oped-fix-nycs-broken-... Keep in mind that a one-bedroom apartment in NYC costs about $3,000 a month!!! An Uber driver would work 150 hours a month just to pay for that! He would still need to buy food, clothing, healthcare, etc. This person cannot remotely think of raising children as an Uber driver. Somebody making $40,000 per year in NYC would probably need to share housing with roommates or family. Source: https://ny.curbed.com/2019/6/3/18650949/nyc-rent-prices-zumper-report https://ny.curbed.com/2019/6/3/18650949/nyc-rent-prices-zump... Are developers in other countries able to afford their own apartments? It looks like senior developers in Athens, Greece make about €36,500/yr. Source: https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/athens-senior-software-engineer-salary-SRCH_IL.0,6_IM1017_KO7,31.htm https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/athens-senior-software-en... However, cost of living in Athens is so much lower, it is not even funny. It looks like a 1BR apartment costs more like €500-800. This seems easy to afford for a senior developer. At least, it is much easier than our poor Uber driver in NYC. Of course, I just picked Athens as one example. But are you telling me there are places in Europe where senior developers can't even afford their own apartments?!