6 ms·

Georgism is also compatible with a system where land is auctioned, it's just that the proceeds of the auction go to the state instead of the owner of the land.

Georgism is also compatible with a system where land is auctioned, it's just that the proceeds of the auction go to the state instead of the owner of the land. So you could do auctions and market stuff. Without the possibility of profit from appreciation, of course, the land value would be much lower. But land has value even without appreciation.

lend000 7y ago
Interesting -- the market aspect is crucial. My only other qualm, which may or may not be better than necessary side effects of capitalism: if someone has "owned" a house for a long time, especially in a growing area, what is their Land Value Tax? Have they not profited through intelligent or lucky speculation by not having an auction since decades back when the price was much lower, and are they not incentivized to hold onto it even if it should be redeveloped? On the other side, will the feds kick people out with eminent domain for the above reasoning? I came up with a scenario about why I thought this would hinder property improvement, but I think I solved it within the Georgian system: Let's say Alice buys a piece of property zoned for 10 story buildings at 2mm/year LVT. She invests 30M and 3 years of construction into building a 10 story building that can generate 4mm/year in rent. It will pay itself off in 21 years plus start generating profit. Alice has specialized in being a great property develop but not a property manager. However, she is now TIED to this property -- if she lets it go up for auction, she loses the profits from her improvements. Sure, she can contract out property managers and eat into the profit, but this just increases the time until she can afford to build the next building. In a capitalist system, Alice can sell the building upon successful completion and immediately profit to the exact degree the market thinks she improved the land's value. That capital can immediately go into the next project and allow better specialization of human resources. However, I now suppose that the party who "bought" the land from the feds doesn't have to be the specialist who gets contracted to develop it. She can still be paid 30M upon completion and go straight into the next project with a different owner, without ever dealing with an auction. I potentially like this system a lot, as long as it allows wealth and non-land property rights, and market pricing, but I do need to think about it more. Thanks for helping to explain.
- iso947 7y ago
  LVT applies to the land value today. If the value increases because a commuter rail station opens, the value of the land goes up, so the price of the tax goes up (you’re effectively paying more tax as you benefit from better society) If a power station opens next door and price drops, you pay less tax
  - harimau777 7y ago
    Presumably it would also be possible to take steps to adjust the LVT. For example, perhaps the first x thousand dollars of a family's primary home is untaxed.
    - cmcaine 7y ago
      But why? What problem would that rebate seek to solve? If the concern is that poor people might be unable to afford to stay in their homes, why not target poverty or house prices directly rather than adjusting the tax?
      - harimau777 7y ago
        Either would be fine as long as it works. I just meant that there are different ways that a LVT could be implemented.
        iso947 7y ago
        If you want to avoid the cash flow problem you allow the tax to be levied as a charge on the land - collected at disposal
      - eru 7y ago
        Rebates for primary homes are especially annoying, because they get the government into the business of deciding what your primary home is.
  - lend000 7y ago

lend000 7y ago

Interesting -- the market aspect is crucial. My only other qualm, which may or may not be better than necessary side effects of capitalism: if someone has "owned" a house for a long time, especially in a growing area, what is their Land Value Tax? Have they not profited through intelligent or lucky speculation by not having an auction since decades back when the price was much lower, and are they not incentivized to hold onto it even if it should be redeveloped? On the other side, will the feds kick people out with eminent domain for the above reasoning? I came up with a scenario about why I thought this would hinder property improvement, but I think I solved it within the Georgian system: Let's say Alice buys a piece of property zoned for 10 story buildings at 2mm/year LVT. She invests 30M and 3 years of construction into building a 10 story building that can generate 4mm/year in rent. It will pay itself off in 21 years plus start generating profit. Alice has specialized in being a great property develop but not a property manager. However, she is now TIED to this property -- if she lets it go up for auction, she loses the profits from her improvements. Sure, she can contract out property managers and eat into the profit, but this just increases the time until she can afford to build the next building. In a capitalist system, Alice can sell the building upon successful completion and immediately profit to the exact degree the market thinks she improved the land's value. That capital can immediately go into the next project and allow better specialization of human resources. However, I now suppose that the party who "bought" the land from the feds doesn't have to be the specialist who gets contracted to develop it. She can still be paid 30M upon completion and go straight into the next project with a different owner, without ever dealing with an auction. I potentially like this system a lot, as long as it allows wealth and non-land property rights, and market pricing, but I do need to think about it more. Thanks for helping to explain.

iso947 7y ago
LVT applies to the land value today. If the value increases because a commuter rail station opens, the value of the land goes up, so the price of the tax goes up (you’re effectively paying more tax as you benefit from better society) If a power station opens next door and price drops, you pay less tax
- harimau777 7y ago
  Presumably it would also be possible to take steps to adjust the LVT. For example, perhaps the first x thousand dollars of a family's primary home is untaxed.
  - cmcaine 7y ago
    But why? What problem would that rebate seek to solve? If the concern is that poor people might be unable to afford to stay in their homes, why not target poverty or house prices directly rather than adjusting the tax?
    - harimau777 7y ago
      Either would be fine as long as it works. I just meant that there are different ways that a LVT could be implemented.
      - iso947 7y ago
        If you want to avoid the cash flow problem you allow the tax to be levied as a charge on the land - collected at disposal
    - eru 7y ago
      Rebates for primary homes are especially annoying, because they get the government into the business of deciding what your primary home is.
- lend000 7y ago