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If you can not only survive at Google but slack along well enough to get promoted once on "10% of your mental capacity" I'd stay right where you are. You aren't

If you can not only survive at Google but slack along well enough to get promoted once on "10% of your mental capacity" I'd stay right where you are. You aren't going to find a better place to earn money for equivalent effort and it sounds like you've already adapted to the ecosystem. Sounds like you need an interesting side project or just a meaningful hobby. Don't go looking for the missing sense of fulfillment you have at work, either for Google or any other company. Crack some classic literature and take some long walks, figure out what you haven't been doing.

onlyrealcuzzo 7y ago
Second this. Keep slacking at Google. Unless you're ridiculously underpaid -- with a six year tenure -- you're probably in the top 2% in terms of income. You've probably got refreshers that have inflated in value quite handsomely. You're not going to find a better yielding security than your job. Find something better to do with your time. Figure out what your goals are. Whatever they are, you have the resources. Make it happen!
- onlyrealcuzzo 7y ago
  To add to this, at least for myself, there's a certain existential dread that came with being in a similar position. When you don't have resources, you do have excuses. Oh, I can't do X, Y, and Z because I don't have the time or money or this or that. Once you have enough money, there's a certain point where you run out of excuses. It's a little uncomfortable. But it's literally the best first world problem you can ask for.
crobertsbmw 7y ago
Agreed. Most people are doing work, I would love to be able to coast on 10% and then be go build robots or something.
ThrowawayR2 7y ago
Terrible advice. The FAANGs are highly competitive and people are eventually going to notice that this individual is not at the average job level they should be at relative to their years at the company. That will eventually make internal transfers very difficult (yes, hiring managers do check for duds for internal transfers) and motivate their management chain to wash this person out of the company as good attrition.
- meddlepal 7y ago
  Yea but that could take many months to years to happen. Keep milking it. They'll have a good financial cushion to find something else afterwards.
  - ThrowawayR2 7y ago
    I won't say that's not a valid choice (I've seen it done) but if it comes down to that, the tarnished reputation is probably going to hurt them more than the money they get. This industry is not all that large at the FAANG level and the people who succeed or at least do moderately well at a FAANG tend to go on to senior positions at other companies. This person probably does not want a bunch of former co-workers around to say "Oh, that person; I remember them. A nice enough individual, I suppose, but no hire." On top of that, the wash out process isn't likely to be all that pleasant, particularly if this person has depression problems already. Getting negative feedback and the cold shoulder from their colleagues for months/years is probably very demoralizing even if they are still drawing a big paycheck.
    - itronitron 7y ago
      Nothing about the OP's provided context suggests they have 'depression problems', are getting negative feedback, or are about to wash out from Google. They are simply asking for what they should be learning in order to be competitive in the job market.
      - ThrowawayR2 7y ago
        > "Nothing about the OP's provided context suggests they have 'depression problems'..." Really? "...(the rest was on dating/dealing with breakups/dealing with depression/gaming/...)..." > "... are getting negative feedback, or are about to wash out from Google." Those are the long-term consequences of his current state, as I stated quite clearly.
- Mikeb85 7y ago
  Maybe they are at the average job level but just aren't feeling challenged? They did get a promotion, so they can't be that bad... Maybe they're just bored? Either way, leaving a secure, good paying job is almost always bad advice, especially without a firm plan in place..
rkagerer 7y ago
Strong disagree! I can't believe all the advice here telling you to stay in a situation where you don't feel challenged. Clearly you wouldn't have written the post if you were content with the status quo. Find a role you thrive in, doing work that musters your enthusiasm. Whether it's at Google or elsewhere. Yes, it means giving up the cushy freeride, but there's no substitute for the deep sense of pride and satisfaction from solving a tough problem and building something you're passionate about.
- Consultant32452 7y ago
  I suppose this depends on whether you prefer to live to work or work to live. When I was younger I lived to work. Now I work to live. I've taken up backpacking, woodworking, and put a greater emphasis on my family life. If anyone is on the fence here, I definitely recommend working to live. If you can avoid misery at work, you're a lucky person, so do that if you can. But at the end of your life the odds you'll be most proud of selling a few more units of some software is very small.
  - ThrowawayR2 7y ago
    This person is in the early stage of their career. Building the skills, network, and reputation necessary to carry them through the rest of their career while they are young and energetic _is_ working to live, particularly at a FAANG. Nobody wants to become a 50 year old with the skills and experience of a 30-year old.
    - Consultant32452 7y ago
      If someone with the skills of a 30-year old can eek out a good comfortable living without much effort, what's wrong with wanting that? Most 50-somethings I know are doing basically what they were doing at 30.
    - mrep 7y ago
      If you want to have kids, time isn't on your side. Getting pregnant is harder later in life and it also introduces other risks like down syndrome.
weinzierl 7y ago
I have no clue what working at FAANG is really like, but from the comments I read it is said to be very much an "up or out" culture. So I wonder how it is even possible to stay for six years with only one promotion and how long this is going to go well?
- 9nGQluzmnq3M 7y ago
  It's not. You need to get one promo from L3 (new hire) to L4, but once you're there and still hitting your OKRs (loose team targets), you pretty much set the pace.
grogenaut 7y ago
Some of the advice is about expanding yourself, that's good advice. Some of the advice is about how you milk your current position. You said 6 years in industry so I'll take that at face value. Without promotions I'm assuming you'll be working till retirement even at google. Even an early retirement at 55 or 60 is another 25-30 years of this. Unless you're a hero out of Dilbert fiction you won't be able to milk things that long for many reasons. I'm an PE at an Amazon subsidiary so I end up getting involved with engineers and teams who are having issues a lot, so this is advice from what I've seen. I've also got a lot of mentees and all of them have hit lulls (short or long) in their careers. This can happen with high performers or career in role type people and those who decide software isnt' for them (managers and go do somthing elsers). What I see often are people who think that they're treading water but to their managers and leads they're slowing degrading. Unless you are somehow objectively measuring your performance versus your past self this is very likely happening. Lowering motivation leads to slower work. Unless highly trusted, managers avoid giving critical work to unmotivated emplyees. And worst off I usually see people in your place turn salty / bitter / angry. Then things really start to go down hill. The real enemy here is boredom. As yoda once said "Boredom leads to stagnation, stagnation leads to getting passed by, getting passed by leads to salt, salt leads to PIP." So now you're 30, pissed at your current job, salty, and not sure what to do. Not a great place to be and it shows in interviews. I have one friend who this happens to every few years. They get tired of their current projects and get frustrated. Then they stop caring and think they're doing OK. Then about 6 months to a year later they get the talk (pip, letting you go etc). By this point it's usually too late, salt and mistrust have built up and it's hard to break free. (Note: unless you have a manager who is very good at managing your carreer path, they won't notice this slide until year review time when it's likely to late). I have a deal with them now that whenever they feel bored they talk to me and we try and find a good new place for them. There's nothing wrong with staying at a certain level forever at a company. Some people really like that and love the work life separation. You gain trust with managers and mostly you are able to build what is needed and go home at the end of the day. The deal here is to just make sure you a) aren't bored, and b) you are providing value to the manager/lead and they trust you, talk with them often, c) your company will allow you to stay at that level forever. The last one is a kicker, some companies will manage out people who say stay at SDE1 for more than 5 years as low potential. I've dealt with others who were actually performing well for their previous role but had stopped growing. They were promoted into place so they would grow and fill the expanded role. After several years of that person (lead) coasting, the team wasn't in a great spot. I got called in to evaluate poor team performance. This ended up with the lead leaving the team and essentially down leveling. What I'm saying is it can happen to anyone regardless of trajectory. The fix, however, is hard. You need to find what motivates you. I can't answer that for you. This is the worst / most annoying advice I give my mentees, or hell my teenager. This is because you don't know what you don't know. Some people find the fix is job hopping. This is a great way to stay well compensated and working on greenfield projects while in a up market. However it does make it quite hard to grow to a senior position as you don't stay long enough to build up those relationships, and is harder to do in a down market. You also take on the risk of the new position not being what you expected. So again it comes down to figuring out what drives you, as this is the best overall fix. And to that, I'd say what I said at the top differently: "Go Find Yourself". You said you're coasting anyway. Figure out what actually motivates you. Both at home (don't just consume content), and at work (If you still have trust, ask to experiment with roles).
Balgair 7y ago
> Crack some classic literature and take some long walks, figure out what you haven't been doing. I'll plug a great New Years Resolution I did last year (2019) that really helped me: The Harvard Classics. https://www.myharvardclassics.com/categories/20120612_1 https://www.myharvardclassics.com/categories/20120612_1 It's very old stuff (pre-WW1), but a fantastic guided dive into the Western Cannon. It was SOOO worth it to me at only ~15 minutes a day of reading. You can jump in at any time, readings are not connected. Today's (Jan 5) reading on Mazzini still sticks with me a year later. I didn't pay for it, I just downloaded all the volumes and read those, but I should have paid for it, it was that worth it to me in 2019.

onlyrealcuzzo 7y ago

Second this. Keep slacking at Google. Unless you're ridiculously underpaid -- with a six year tenure -- you're probably in the top 2% in terms of income. You've probably got refreshers that have inflated in value quite handsomely. You're not going to find a better yielding security than your job. Find something better to do with your time. Figure out what your goals are. Whatever they are, you have the resources. Make it happen!

onlyrealcuzzo 7y ago
To add to this, at least for myself, there's a certain existential dread that came with being in a similar position. When you don't have resources, you do have excuses. Oh, I can't do X, Y, and Z because I don't have the time or money or this or that. Once you have enough money, there's a certain point where you run out of excuses. It's a little uncomfortable. But it's literally the best first world problem you can ask for.

crobertsbmw 7y ago

Agreed. Most people are doing work, I would love to be able to coast on 10% and then be go build robots or something.

ThrowawayR2 7y ago

Terrible advice. The FAANGs are highly competitive and people are eventually going to notice that this individual is not at the average job level they should be at relative to their years at the company. That will eventually make internal transfers very difficult (yes, hiring managers do check for duds for internal transfers) and motivate their management chain to wash this person out of the company as good attrition.

meddlepal 7y ago
Yea but that could take many months to years to happen. Keep milking it. They'll have a good financial cushion to find something else afterwards.
- ThrowawayR2 7y ago
  I won't say that's not a valid choice (I've seen it done) but if it comes down to that, the tarnished reputation is probably going to hurt them more than the money they get. This industry is not all that large at the FAANG level and the people who succeed or at least do moderately well at a FAANG tend to go on to senior positions at other companies. This person probably does not want a bunch of former co-workers around to say "Oh, that person; I remember them. A nice enough individual, I suppose, but no hire." On top of that, the wash out process isn't likely to be all that pleasant, particularly if this person has depression problems already. Getting negative feedback and the cold shoulder from their colleagues for months/years is probably very demoralizing even if they are still drawing a big paycheck.
  - itronitron 7y ago
    Nothing about the OP's provided context suggests they have 'depression problems', are getting negative feedback, or are about to wash out from Google. They are simply asking for what they should be learning in order to be competitive in the job market.
    - ThrowawayR2 7y ago
      > "Nothing about the OP's provided context suggests they have 'depression problems'..." Really? "...(the rest was on dating/dealing with breakups/dealing with depression/gaming/...)..." > "... are getting negative feedback, or are about to wash out from Google." Those are the long-term consequences of his current state, as I stated quite clearly.
Mikeb85 7y ago
Maybe they are at the average job level but just aren't feeling challenged? They did get a promotion, so they can't be that bad... Maybe they're just bored? Either way, leaving a secure, good paying job is almost always bad advice, especially without a firm plan in place..

rkagerer 7y ago

Strong disagree! I can't believe all the advice here telling you to stay in a situation where you don't feel challenged. Clearly you wouldn't have written the post if you were content with the status quo. Find a role you thrive in, doing work that musters your enthusiasm. Whether it's at Google or elsewhere. Yes, it means giving up the cushy freeride, but there's no substitute for the deep sense of pride and satisfaction from solving a tough problem and building something you're passionate about.

Consultant32452 7y ago
I suppose this depends on whether you prefer to live to work or work to live. When I was younger I lived to work. Now I work to live. I've taken up backpacking, woodworking, and put a greater emphasis on my family life. If anyone is on the fence here, I definitely recommend working to live. If you can avoid misery at work, you're a lucky person, so do that if you can. But at the end of your life the odds you'll be most proud of selling a few more units of some software is very small.
- ThrowawayR2 7y ago
  This person is in the early stage of their career. Building the skills, network, and reputation necessary to carry them through the rest of their career while they are young and energetic _is_ working to live, particularly at a FAANG. Nobody wants to become a 50 year old with the skills and experience of a 30-year old.
  - Consultant32452 7y ago
    If someone with the skills of a 30-year old can eek out a good comfortable living without much effort, what's wrong with wanting that? Most 50-somethings I know are doing basically what they were doing at 30.
  - mrep 7y ago
    If you want to have kids, time isn't on your side. Getting pregnant is harder later in life and it also introduces other risks like down syndrome.

weinzierl 7y ago

I have no clue what working at FAANG is really like, but from the comments I read it is said to be very much an "up or out" culture. So I wonder how it is even possible to stay for six years with only one promotion and how long this is going to go well?

9nGQluzmnq3M 7y ago
It's not. You need to get one promo from L3 (new hire) to L4, but once you're there and still hitting your OKRs (loose team targets), you pretty much set the pace.

grogenaut 7y ago

Some of the advice is about expanding yourself, that's good advice. Some of the advice is about how you milk your current position. You said 6 years in industry so I'll take that at face value. Without promotions I'm assuming you'll be working till retirement even at google. Even an early retirement at 55 or 60 is another 25-30 years of this. Unless you're a hero out of Dilbert fiction you won't be able to milk things that long for many reasons. I'm an PE at an Amazon subsidiary so I end up getting involved with engineers and teams who are having issues a lot, so this is advice from what I've seen. I've also got a lot of mentees and all of them have hit lulls (short or long) in their careers. This can happen with high performers or career in role type people and those who decide software isnt' for them (managers and go do somthing elsers). What I see often are people who think that they're treading water but to their managers and leads they're slowing degrading. Unless you are somehow objectively measuring your performance versus your past self this is very likely happening. Lowering motivation leads to slower work. Unless highly trusted, managers avoid giving critical work to unmotivated emplyees. And worst off I usually see people in your place turn salty / bitter / angry. Then things really start to go down hill. The real enemy here is boredom. As yoda once said "Boredom leads to stagnation, stagnation leads to getting passed by, getting passed by leads to salt, salt leads to PIP." So now you're 30, pissed at your current job, salty, and not sure what to do. Not a great place to be and it shows in interviews. I have one friend who this happens to every few years. They get tired of their current projects and get frustrated. Then they stop caring and think they're doing OK. Then about 6 months to a year later they get the talk (pip, letting you go etc). By this point it's usually too late, salt and mistrust have built up and it's hard to break free. (Note: unless you have a manager who is very good at managing your carreer path, they won't notice this slide until year review time when it's likely to late). I have a deal with them now that whenever they feel bored they talk to me and we try and find a good new place for them. There's nothing wrong with staying at a certain level forever at a company. Some people really like that and love the work life separation. You gain trust with managers and mostly you are able to build what is needed and go home at the end of the day. The deal here is to just make sure you a) aren't bored, and b) you are providing value to the manager/lead and they trust you, talk with them often, c) your company will allow you to stay at that level forever. The last one is a kicker, some companies will manage out people who say stay at SDE1 for more than 5 years as low potential. I've dealt with others who were actually performing well for their previous role but had stopped growing. They were promoted into place so they would grow and fill the expanded role. After several years of that person (lead) coasting, the team wasn't in a great spot. I got called in to evaluate poor team performance. This ended up with the lead leaving the team and essentially down leveling. What I'm saying is it can happen to anyone regardless of trajectory. The fix, however, is hard. You need to find what motivates you. I can't answer that for you. This is the worst / most annoying advice I give my mentees, or hell my teenager. This is because you don't know what you don't know. Some people find the fix is job hopping. This is a great way to stay well compensated and working on greenfield projects while in a up market. However it does make it quite hard to grow to a senior position as you don't stay long enough to build up those relationships, and is harder to do in a down market. You also take on the risk of the new position not being what you expected. So again it comes down to figuring out what drives you, as this is the best overall fix. And to that, I'd say what I said at the top differently: "Go Find Yourself". You said you're coasting anyway. Figure out what actually motivates you. Both at home (don't just consume content), and at work (If you still have trust, ask to experiment with roles).

Balgair 7y ago

> Crack some classic literature and take some long walks, figure out what you haven't been doing. I'll plug a great New Years Resolution I did last year (2019) that really helped me: The Harvard Classics. https://www.myharvardclassics.com/categories/20120612_1 https://www.myharvardclassics.com/categories/20120612_1 It's very old stuff (pre-WW1), but a fantastic guided dive into the Western Cannon. It was SOOO worth it to me at only ~15 minutes a day of reading. You can jump in at any time, readings are not connected. Today's (Jan 5) reading on Mazzini still sticks with me a year later. I didn't pay for it, I just downloaded all the volumes and read those, but I should have paid for it, it was that worth it to me in 2019.