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It's kind of disturbing to me that so many people in the comments are defending Linus's tone here. He writes like petulant child. Its wildly unprofessional, and

It's kind of disturbing to me that so many people in the comments are defending Linus's tone here. He writes like petulant child. Its wildly unprofessional, and only makes it harder to follow what follow what he's trying to say. I'm really glad I'm not actively involved in any community he's a part of.

jturpin 7y ago
There's always a surge in people who defend and even mimic Linus's tone whenever a post like this gets popular. People love being that smart guy who gets to feels entitled to act obnoxiously because they're right - at least about one small thing. Reminds me of _that_ group in High School. It sounds like there was an expectation that Linux should support something that it doesn't, and whether it _should_ support it is up for debate. Totally agree about Linus's involvement in any communities. I assume part of it is that he feels personally attacked when something about Linux is challenged.
- SXX 7y ago
  > It sounds like there was an expectation that Linux should support something that it doesn't, and whether it _should_ support it is up for debate. You really didn't paid attention to what being discussed. Someone started discussion on how bad Linux kernel is based on incorrect data generated by badly written code.
whack 7y ago
The common refrain I hear is that "we're engineers. We don't have time for people's 'feelings' and 'emotions'". Ironically, the controversial things that Linus says are exactly those phrases that inject unnecessary emotions into a technical discussion. Take away all the emotionally charged words, replace them with purely factual descriptions or observations, and you would have something that better resembles the principles that Linus's defenders claim to be endorsing. Ironically, if a manager or CEO or VC or politician used similar language, they would be attacked by the same people for being abusive and elitist. But when an alpha-programmer does it, it is somehow ok. I've learnt so much from reading both the original blog post, and also the resulting conversation with Linus. The technical work Linus has done and is doing, is fantastic and to be commended. I just wish he followed through on his earlier desire to change his communication style.
SXX 7y ago
What exactly you dislike about tone of that post? There only few harsh points there: - He called garbage code garbage. - He pointed out that most of people don't understand locking. - He again pointed out that almost no one including him is qualified enough to write own locking code. There is absolutely no personal attacks or whatever. It's just someone make a big fuss about how bad kernel is without real reasons and Linus called bullshit.
throwaway29303 7y ago
Although what I'm about to say doesn't justify his behaviour, but have you ever considered the following: a) He's aware of his tone, but probably bald tired of reading stuff that can be (and in this case is) perceived as an attack (the blog post's title comes to mind) on his work and a bad benchmark/study/conclusion is used to justify it? (Now imagine enduring this throughout decades... Yeah, one has to have very thick skin to be in such a position--have you ever tried to be in his shoes for a moment?) b) He has called himself names as well (In the past I've seriously been tempted to compile a list of such self-deprecation behaviour but it's ultimately pointless); and c) We don't know what's going on in his life or maybe it's just how he is or maybe it's a cultural thing. My point is: sure Linus can do better on how to react to criticism, but inexperienced people ought to refrain themselves from blaming other people's work--especially from vastly experienced ones.
- asdfasgasdgasdg 7y ago
  I do think you have a point here, especially in the last sentence. The original blog post also could have been more constructive in how it worded its criticism. As usual, this could be accomplished by being more precise. "Spin locks experience high latency under the Linux scheduler" would be a fine title for a blog post. Whether it would have received any upvotes is another question though. Maybe we, the voters, in our crow-like attraction to shiny titles, are as much to blame as anyone for the poor communication here.

jturpin 7y ago

There's always a surge in people who defend and even mimic Linus's tone whenever a post like this gets popular. People love being that smart guy who gets to feels entitled to act obnoxiously because they're right - at least about one small thing. Reminds me of _that_ group in High School. It sounds like there was an expectation that Linux should support something that it doesn't, and whether it _should_ support it is up for debate. Totally agree about Linus's involvement in any communities. I assume part of it is that he feels personally attacked when something about Linux is challenged.

SXX 7y ago
> It sounds like there was an expectation that Linux should support something that it doesn't, and whether it _should_ support it is up for debate. You really didn't paid attention to what being discussed. Someone started discussion on how bad Linux kernel is based on incorrect data generated by badly written code.

whack 7y ago

The common refrain I hear is that "we're engineers. We don't have time for people's 'feelings' and 'emotions'". Ironically, the controversial things that Linus says are exactly those phrases that inject unnecessary emotions into a technical discussion. Take away all the emotionally charged words, replace them with purely factual descriptions or observations, and you would have something that better resembles the principles that Linus's defenders claim to be endorsing. Ironically, if a manager or CEO or VC or politician used similar language, they would be attacked by the same people for being abusive and elitist. But when an alpha-programmer does it, it is somehow ok. I've learnt so much from reading both the original blog post, and also the resulting conversation with Linus. The technical work Linus has done and is doing, is fantastic and to be commended. I just wish he followed through on his earlier desire to change his communication style.

SXX 7y ago

What exactly you dislike about tone of that post? There only few harsh points there: - He called garbage code garbage. - He pointed out that most of people don't understand locking. - He again pointed out that almost no one including him is qualified enough to write own locking code. There is absolutely no personal attacks or whatever. It's just someone make a big fuss about how bad kernel is without real reasons and Linus called bullshit.

throwaway29303 7y ago

Although what I'm about to say doesn't justify his behaviour, but have you ever considered the following: a) He's aware of his tone, but probably bald tired of reading stuff that can be (and in this case is) perceived as an attack (the blog post's title comes to mind) on his work and a bad benchmark/study/conclusion is used to justify it? (Now imagine enduring this throughout decades... Yeah, one has to have very thick skin to be in such a position--have you ever tried to be in his shoes for a moment?) b) He has called himself names as well (In the past I've seriously been tempted to compile a list of such self-deprecation behaviour but it's ultimately pointless); and c) We don't know what's going on in his life or maybe it's just how he is or maybe it's a cultural thing. My point is: sure Linus can do better on how to react to criticism, but inexperienced people ought to refrain themselves from blaming other people's work--especially from vastly experienced ones.

asdfasgasdgasdg 7y ago
I do think you have a point here, especially in the last sentence. The original blog post also could have been more constructive in how it worded its criticism. As usual, this could be accomplished by being more precise. "Spin locks experience high latency under the Linux scheduler" would be a fine title for a blog post. Whether it would have received any upvotes is another question though. Maybe we, the voters, in our crow-like attraction to shiny titles, are as much to blame as anyone for the poor communication here.