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One interesting observation I've had: I've yet to encounter a YC funded company that has had a negative outcome from the YC program. I've talked to several in p

One interesting observation I've had: I've yet to encounter a YC funded company that has had a negative outcome from the YC program. I've talked to several in person and through email and its been nothing but positives. I realize that its probably the successful ones who will be outspoken and positive, but still something worth noting. The equity argument is plain stupid IMHO. I'm actually more curious with the trend that YC and its copies are creating with branding. It seems to be turning into a kind of "school" where its companies are identified as much by association with the program as the company's idea itself. So far this seems to be very good in generating publicity, but I am curious about the long term effects of this as there are more successfully funded companies and more copies pop up.

sharpshoot 19y ago
undoudtedly pg is getting better and better at spotting the entrepreneurs who are most likely to benefit from YC and who are receptive to the environment for making something big. In doing so pg is definately making something YC funded companies want and appreciate. Hence the positive feedback. I love how fearless these startups are in going after big big markets, its insrpirational to susequent generations of YC founder. May there be more black T shirts dished out soon.
- gyro_robo 19y ago
  On the flip side there are more and more applicants which counterbalances the improved selection. Also it's unlikely that anyone who got accepted would give a negative review of it because it's valuable even if it doesn't "work out". With sites like http://overhear.us http://overhear.us the phrase "they can't all be winners" springs to mind; however, I have a hard time believing they were more promising than the hundreds who got turned down. I'm not sold on the prophetic ability of YC.
  - sharpshoot 19y ago
    I'd like to see the stats on overhear.us but my feeling is that a corporate backchannel can be a compelling timesink.
  - yubrew 19y ago
    YC and pg do not even try to push the image of having prophetic ability. He repeats over and over that there are great ideas, business models, and people that are not selected. I got interviewed for this summer. While I am disappointed that we were not selected, I understand that there's a bunch of great people, with great ideas, and only a handful of spots. When you're trying to pick the best 19 apples from a barrel of 420 apples, you're bound to throw out a couple good ones. My question is, how many people that were not YC selected went on their own, and now are successful? same question but with people that were interviewed and not selected?
    - jsjenkins168 19y ago
      Interviewed for this summer but not selected. I have no idea if we will be successful or not.. I know for certain though that we will keep trying until we are (which may be never). My co-founder is my cousin, so he isnt exactly going away :) He's keeps my fire lit and I do the same for him. My biggest fear is not being able to move as fast as if we were in the YC program. I think YC is a gentle push to release as soon as possible, which is important. I suspect many of the early-stage teams who are rejected do not actually execute their idea and release. (Hence the apparent absence of successful "rejected" groups maybe?)
      - BitGeek 19y ago
        Its totaly in your control... move on, stop hanging out around the YC crowd and go build your company. Don't let YC determine your fate... they had their chance and passed. The absense of successful rejected is simply a factor of the YC propaganda engine only talking about those accepted. ITs too early for stories about the ones that got away to be well known-- hell, there aren't any real successes from the program yet (which is also because its new.)
    - gyro_robo 19y ago
      I might buy that if he didn't write an article right after the last round justifying nonselection of people as "measurement error" between those at the tail end of the talent cutoff. http://paulgraham.com/judgement.html http://paulgraham.com/judgement.html My question is how many of the start-ups selected wouldn't have done anything if they hadn't made the cut? I think most of the non-selectees switch gears and do something else instead, like school. Relatedly, how many of the people who were selected had success primarily because of their YC link rather than because of impressive technology? Reddit certainly seems to be one of them, and the "big success" so far.
  - SwellJoe 19y ago
    Overhear.us is an example of YC funding smart people, rather than any particular idea. Paul and Evan are smart and really good at what they do (development and design, respectively). I agree that they may not have hit on the right idea for their skills yet (overhear.us is fun as hell to use and eats time like nothing else I've ever used, but it doesn't seem to be getting traction, so far), but I have no doubt they will build something great. They may end up going back to the drawing board (maybe even a few times) before doing it...but you'll hear about them again. They're still young...plenty of time to make a few mistakes before hitting on something great. YC is a very early stage investor. They bet on people more than ideas. I believe betting on Paul and Evan was a well-placed bet, even if Socialmoth and Overhear.us never explode into popularity.
    - ashu 19y ago
      Very well said. That site is a lot of fun to use... People who think they are prophetic regarding consumer internet ideas are kidding themselves. The only way to know whether an idea will work or not is to just go ahead and TRY IT. And Paul/Evan have already done this twice in such a small amount of time. That speed and taste for great execution is what YC's bet is.
  - sudden5 19y ago
    thanks for the call out and link : ) overhear.us is extremely experimental at this point and could change dramatically. we spent 6 weeks and made it on a whim and it has already proved useful as a feedback device internal to YC. there remain a lot of obvious improvements to be made product, but it is an experiment. right now we are eyeing it and seeing how people are using it, and how we can get them to use it better. i'd love to talk more about it, but i have a feeling i'm already being pulled in to an online war by responding to this comment.
    - sudden5 19y ago
      oops -paul from overhear.us i'd love to write up the whole overhear.us story but i don't think this is the place. also this isn't my normal account
      - SwellJoe 19y ago
        Paul, unlike at Overhear.us, you can edit your posts here. No need to hit reply to add something. ;-)
        sudden5 19y ago
        wow, look at that. wonderful
        sudden5 19y ago
        SwellJoe, i'm seeing you all over the internet now.
BitGeek 19y ago
The main objection of the "trolls" is the strident ideology being shown. Here's one of my replies buried in the other thread: Anybody who build their business on nights and weekends while working a fulltime job is someone who has shown a great deal of commitment. I've done this, its damn hard... its hard not to let the startup wither away because you're too busy with your day job, and its hard not to loose interest after even 3 months of spending all your time on your job or your other job with little time for anything else. Show me someone who built thier company that way, and I'll be interested in putting money in. YC seems to attract and be geared for, kids in college who want a summer job with the prospect of glamorous VC money afterwards. It doesn't matter to them that they might get a raw deal-- cause they don't have much invested in it in the first place. And ther's nothing wrong with that. The problem is that these kids are so adamant and smug that this is The One True Way To Do A Tech Startup-- that making these foolish short term choices in pursuit of a billion dollar dream is obviously right... and building a net worth of $10M by building a $3M/a year real buisiness is a "lifestyle" business-- a failure in their eyes. They are naieve and strident and there is no getting thru to them because Paul Graham has them mezmerized by the tune he's playing. YC is a great summer camp for entreprenurial college students. But all the bashing of other ways of going about it that they do are so misguided... and the focus on only high risk, low probability business models seems misguided.
- staunch 19y ago
  I question your motives. You seem to just be enjoying the opportunity to play the role of the outspoken critic of The Cult of Paul Graham. You don't seem the least bit interested offering better alternatives for these "kids". All you say is "if you know what you're doing" it "isn't hard" to get funding. Paul Graham is giving personal guidance and introductions. You're also taking the role of the experienced startup guy setting the "kids" straight. But people who are clearly more experienced and successful than you seem to disagree. Look at the list of speakers YC has attracted, many of them are not easy to influence with money -- and yet they seem to think YC is an amazing opportunity that they would have loved to have when starting out.
  - BitGeek 19y ago

sharpshoot 19y ago

undoudtedly pg is getting better and better at spotting the entrepreneurs who are most likely to benefit from YC and who are receptive to the environment for making something big. In doing so pg is definately making something YC funded companies want and appreciate. Hence the positive feedback. I love how fearless these startups are in going after big big markets, its insrpirational to susequent generations of YC founder. May there be more black T shirts dished out soon.

gyro_robo 19y ago
On the flip side there are more and more applicants which counterbalances the improved selection. Also it's unlikely that anyone who got accepted would give a negative review of it because it's valuable even if it doesn't "work out". With sites like http://overhear.us http://overhear.us the phrase "they can't all be winners" springs to mind; however, I have a hard time believing they were more promising than the hundreds who got turned down. I'm not sold on the prophetic ability of YC.
- sharpshoot 19y ago
  I'd like to see the stats on overhear.us but my feeling is that a corporate backchannel can be a compelling timesink.
- yubrew 19y ago
  YC and pg do not even try to push the image of having prophetic ability. He repeats over and over that there are great ideas, business models, and people that are not selected. I got interviewed for this summer. While I am disappointed that we were not selected, I understand that there's a bunch of great people, with great ideas, and only a handful of spots. When you're trying to pick the best 19 apples from a barrel of 420 apples, you're bound to throw out a couple good ones. My question is, how many people that were not YC selected went on their own, and now are successful? same question but with people that were interviewed and not selected?
  - jsjenkins168 19y ago
    Interviewed for this summer but not selected. I have no idea if we will be successful or not.. I know for certain though that we will keep trying until we are (which may be never). My co-founder is my cousin, so he isnt exactly going away :) He's keeps my fire lit and I do the same for him. My biggest fear is not being able to move as fast as if we were in the YC program. I think YC is a gentle push to release as soon as possible, which is important. I suspect many of the early-stage teams who are rejected do not actually execute their idea and release. (Hence the apparent absence of successful "rejected" groups maybe?)
    - BitGeek 19y ago
      Its totaly in your control... move on, stop hanging out around the YC crowd and go build your company. Don't let YC determine your fate... they had their chance and passed. The absense of successful rejected is simply a factor of the YC propaganda engine only talking about those accepted. ITs too early for stories about the ones that got away to be well known-- hell, there aren't any real successes from the program yet (which is also because its new.)
  - gyro_robo 19y ago
    I might buy that if he didn't write an article right after the last round justifying nonselection of people as "measurement error" between those at the tail end of the talent cutoff. http://paulgraham.com/judgement.html http://paulgraham.com/judgement.html My question is how many of the start-ups selected wouldn't have done anything if they hadn't made the cut? I think most of the non-selectees switch gears and do something else instead, like school. Relatedly, how many of the people who were selected had success primarily because of their YC link rather than because of impressive technology? Reddit certainly seems to be one of them, and the "big success" so far.
- SwellJoe 19y ago
  Overhear.us is an example of YC funding smart people, rather than any particular idea. Paul and Evan are smart and really good at what they do (development and design, respectively). I agree that they may not have hit on the right idea for their skills yet (overhear.us is fun as hell to use and eats time like nothing else I've ever used, but it doesn't seem to be getting traction, so far), but I have no doubt they will build something great. They may end up going back to the drawing board (maybe even a few times) before doing it...but you'll hear about them again. They're still young...plenty of time to make a few mistakes before hitting on something great. YC is a very early stage investor. They bet on people more than ideas. I believe betting on Paul and Evan was a well-placed bet, even if Socialmoth and Overhear.us never explode into popularity.
  - ashu 19y ago
    Very well said. That site is a lot of fun to use... People who think they are prophetic regarding consumer internet ideas are kidding themselves. The only way to know whether an idea will work or not is to just go ahead and TRY IT. And Paul/Evan have already done this twice in such a small amount of time. That speed and taste for great execution is what YC's bet is.
- sudden5 19y ago
  thanks for the call out and link : ) overhear.us is extremely experimental at this point and could change dramatically. we spent 6 weeks and made it on a whim and it has already proved useful as a feedback device internal to YC. there remain a lot of obvious improvements to be made product, but it is an experiment. right now we are eyeing it and seeing how people are using it, and how we can get them to use it better. i'd love to talk more about it, but i have a feeling i'm already being pulled in to an online war by responding to this comment.
  - sudden5 19y ago
    oops -paul from overhear.us i'd love to write up the whole overhear.us story but i don't think this is the place. also this isn't my normal account
    - SwellJoe 19y ago
      Paul, unlike at Overhear.us, you can edit your posts here. No need to hit reply to add something. ;-)
      - sudden5 19y ago
        wow, look at that. wonderful
      - sudden5 19y ago
        SwellJoe, i'm seeing you all over the internet now.

BitGeek 19y ago

The main objection of the "trolls" is the strident ideology being shown. Here's one of my replies buried in the other thread: Anybody who build their business on nights and weekends while working a fulltime job is someone who has shown a great deal of commitment. I've done this, its damn hard... its hard not to let the startup wither away because you're too busy with your day job, and its hard not to loose interest after even 3 months of spending all your time on your job or your other job with little time for anything else. Show me someone who built thier company that way, and I'll be interested in putting money in. YC seems to attract and be geared for, kids in college who want a summer job with the prospect of glamorous VC money afterwards. It doesn't matter to them that they might get a raw deal-- cause they don't have much invested in it in the first place. And ther's nothing wrong with that. The problem is that these kids are so adamant and smug that this is The One True Way To Do A Tech Startup-- that making these foolish short term choices in pursuit of a billion dollar dream is obviously right... and building a net worth of $10M by building a $3M/a year real buisiness is a "lifestyle" business-- a failure in their eyes. They are naieve and strident and there is no getting thru to them because Paul Graham has them mezmerized by the tune he's playing. YC is a great summer camp for entreprenurial college students. But all the bashing of other ways of going about it that they do are so misguided... and the focus on only high risk, low probability business models seems misguided.

staunch 19y ago
I question your motives. You seem to just be enjoying the opportunity to play the role of the outspoken critic of The Cult of Paul Graham. You don't seem the least bit interested offering better alternatives for these "kids". All you say is "if you know what you're doing" it "isn't hard" to get funding. Paul Graham is giving personal guidance and introductions. You're also taking the role of the experienced startup guy setting the "kids" straight. But people who are clearly more experienced and successful than you seem to disagree. Look at the list of speakers YC has attracted, many of them are not easy to influence with money -- and yet they seem to think YC is an amazing opportunity that they would have loved to have when starting out.
- BitGeek 19y ago