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I think things like the work with fascia suffer from people feeling the need to explain something with scientific terms. For a few years I was involved in the y

I think things like the work with fascia suffer from people feeling the need to explain something with scientific terms. For a few years I was involved in the yoga community and noticed a lot of practices where something that was clearly beneficial to a lot of people got explained with clearly very questionable science terms. I am not sure why that is. Will you get ignored when you demonstrate something that works but say “I have no idea why or how it works” ?

burlesona 7y ago
This is a good observation. I think that “it works but we don’t know why” is appealing to a small slice of well-educated people who are comfortable with complexity and the limits of knowledge, but otherwise off-putting. For most people I think that “it works but we don’t know why,” translates to “it doesn’t really work.” Thus a fake explanation adds credibility and believability. And if it does work, then people feel reassured and confident in the fake explanation. It’s all pretty tricky human psychology though.
- Ididntdothis 7y ago
  Is this specific to medicine? In physics it’s perfectly ok to say “ here is an observation which can’t be explained with our current knowledge “. See dark matter and dark energy. The story of Ignaz Semmelweis seems to indicate that medicine is different from physics in that aspect.
  - 1_over_n 7y ago
    Placebo effects are very real and any drugs efficacy will include some placebo effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo#Placebo-controlled_studies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo#Placebo-controlled_stu...
    - Ididntdothis 7y ago
      That’s another thing I wonder about. What’s so wrong about the placebo effect? If it makes people feel better we should embrace it. I think a lot of things like yoga work because they are done in positive environments by positive people. Whereas a lot of regular medicine is performed in pretty negative circumstances. So the same treatment may not work in a doctors office but it may work in a yoga studio.
      - Smoosh 7y ago
        The problem isn't the placebo effect per se. Nor with it's application as a treatment. It's with misleading people as to what is actually helping them. For example selling magical crystals to adjust your aura. I don't know about studies and evidence specific to yoga, but would suspect it's benefits are a combination of real and placebo. Thus it isn't all placebo effect as there is a foundation of actual therapeutic benefit.
  - Noumenon72 7y ago
    Laypeople don't believe in dark matter yet. They're skeptical and expecting something with a clearer expectation. Physicists and yourself can accept dark energy because you are in the "small slice of well-educated people who are comfortable with complexity and the limits of knowledge".
- staticautomatic 7y ago
  I think a more compelling and generally true version is "We know that this works, but we don't know exactly how it works yet."
- untangle 7y ago
  > I think that “it works but we don’t know why” is appealing to a small slice of well-educated people who are comfortable with complexity and the limits of knowledge, but otherwise off-putting. Really? So a limited number of intellectual elite are the only people capable of accepting faith-based arguments? > It’s all pretty tricky human psychology though. Indeed.
  - stallmanite 7y ago
    Seems like the opposite of a faith-based argument to say “It works but we don’t know why.” Wouldn’t a faith-based argument typically specify the “why” without evidence. To me what GP is describing sounds more like science in that it wouldn’t be making unjustified claims.
etrautmann 7y ago
Perhaps there's a relationship between the perceived need for a scientific sounding explanation and compatibility with traditional medicine for a particular idea. It's ironic that virtually all drugs are discovered via effects and not designed via a known mechanism.
- samatman 7y ago
  Classes of drugs, yes. Once a novel compound is discovered, and the mechanism characterized, tweaking it to get better binding affinity for the affected binding site, or reduced affinity to a side-effect-producing site, is tractable and is practiced in industry and research.
- rhoyerboat 7y ago
  Without waxing too poetic about it, its like .. are you deliberately not hitting the nail on the head? ;) > Perhaps there's a relationship between the perceived need for a scientific sounding explanation and compatibility with traditional medicine for a particular idea. I think there is a chemical reward system in play in order to even want to seek information, of any quality. Even in its most utterly click-baity, priori, emotionally contrived or pseudo-scientific form...(needing something "science.") It isn't as deep of a reward system as the one engaged where you are totally in awe of natures order and discover the capacity to produce information and thus direct some control over it through planning...(demonstrable compatibility.)(its too bad the click-bait people aren't selling better dope.) That biology produces complex molecules which are even 'compatible between organisms in plant and animal is pretty awe inspiring. And, that the control of human intention has any control over nature, electrochemically or otherwise, likewise so. A couple movies come to mind: https://topdocumentaryfilms.com/pleasure-finding-things-out/ https://topdocumentaryfilms.com/pleasure-finding-things-out/ https://topdocumentaryfilms.com/botany-desire/ https://topdocumentaryfilms.com/botany-desire/

burlesona 7y ago

This is a good observation. I think that “it works but we don’t know why” is appealing to a small slice of well-educated people who are comfortable with complexity and the limits of knowledge, but otherwise off-putting. For most people I think that “it works but we don’t know why,” translates to “it doesn’t really work.” Thus a fake explanation adds credibility and believability. And if it does work, then people feel reassured and confident in the fake explanation. It’s all pretty tricky human psychology though.

Ididntdothis 7y ago
Is this specific to medicine? In physics it’s perfectly ok to say “ here is an observation which can’t be explained with our current knowledge “. See dark matter and dark energy. The story of Ignaz Semmelweis seems to indicate that medicine is different from physics in that aspect.
- 1_over_n 7y ago
  Placebo effects are very real and any drugs efficacy will include some placebo effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo#Placebo-controlled_studies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo#Placebo-controlled_stu...
  - Ididntdothis 7y ago
    That’s another thing I wonder about. What’s so wrong about the placebo effect? If it makes people feel better we should embrace it. I think a lot of things like yoga work because they are done in positive environments by positive people. Whereas a lot of regular medicine is performed in pretty negative circumstances. So the same treatment may not work in a doctors office but it may work in a yoga studio.
    - Smoosh 7y ago
      The problem isn't the placebo effect per se. Nor with it's application as a treatment. It's with misleading people as to what is actually helping them. For example selling magical crystals to adjust your aura. I don't know about studies and evidence specific to yoga, but would suspect it's benefits are a combination of real and placebo. Thus it isn't all placebo effect as there is a foundation of actual therapeutic benefit.
- Noumenon72 7y ago
  Laypeople don't believe in dark matter yet. They're skeptical and expecting something with a clearer expectation. Physicists and yourself can accept dark energy because you are in the "small slice of well-educated people who are comfortable with complexity and the limits of knowledge".
staticautomatic 7y ago
I think a more compelling and generally true version is "We know that this works, but we don't know exactly how it works yet."
untangle 7y ago
> I think that “it works but we don’t know why” is appealing to a small slice of well-educated people who are comfortable with complexity and the limits of knowledge, but otherwise off-putting. Really? So a limited number of intellectual elite are the only people capable of accepting faith-based arguments? > It’s all pretty tricky human psychology though. Indeed.
- stallmanite 7y ago
  Seems like the opposite of a faith-based argument to say “It works but we don’t know why.” Wouldn’t a faith-based argument typically specify the “why” without evidence. To me what GP is describing sounds more like science in that it wouldn’t be making unjustified claims.

etrautmann 7y ago

Perhaps there's a relationship between the perceived need for a scientific sounding explanation and compatibility with traditional medicine for a particular idea. It's ironic that virtually all drugs are discovered via effects and not designed via a known mechanism.

samatman 7y ago
Classes of drugs, yes. Once a novel compound is discovered, and the mechanism characterized, tweaking it to get better binding affinity for the affected binding site, or reduced affinity to a side-effect-producing site, is tractable and is practiced in industry and research.
rhoyerboat 7y ago
Without waxing too poetic about it, its like .. are you deliberately not hitting the nail on the head? ;) > Perhaps there's a relationship between the perceived need for a scientific sounding explanation and compatibility with traditional medicine for a particular idea. I think there is a chemical reward system in play in order to even want to seek information, of any quality. Even in its most utterly click-baity, priori, emotionally contrived or pseudo-scientific form...(needing something "science.") It isn't as deep of a reward system as the one engaged where you are totally in awe of natures order and discover the capacity to produce information and thus direct some control over it through planning...(demonstrable compatibility.)(its too bad the click-bait people aren't selling better dope.) That biology produces complex molecules which are even 'compatible between organisms in plant and animal is pretty awe inspiring. And, that the control of human intention has any control over nature, electrochemically or otherwise, likewise so. A couple movies come to mind: https://topdocumentaryfilms.com/pleasure-finding-things-out/ https://topdocumentaryfilms.com/pleasure-finding-things-out/ https://topdocumentaryfilms.com/botany-desire/ https://topdocumentaryfilms.com/botany-desire/