6 ms·

I work in the NHS, this is the current user experience 1. Type in user name and password onto computer 2. Logs in to windows, normally taking ~60 seconds, unl

I work in the NHS, this is the current user experience 1. Type in user name and password onto computer 2. Logs in to windows, normally taking ~60 seconds, unless you've got the computer where the WiFi signal is poor (yes, WiFi on desktops!) and you get a 'no log in servers' 3. Windows finally loads, click the icon for the software for viewing blood test results 4. An internet explorer window opens, then closes, then after 10 seconds the software opens 5. Type in your username and password, wait 10 seconds 6. Now I want to prescribe some medications, close the first software (computer can't cope with two things open at once), click the logo for the prescribing software 7. A Google Chrome window opens, slowly loads the prescribing software website 8. Type in username and password 9. Navigate through the slow and unintuitive prescribing software 10. Oh wait, I can't prescribe this particular drug without checking a blood test result, close the prescribing software and go to step 4 11. Some alarm goes off, so I have to lock the computer and run. Return from dealing with the alarm, go back to step 1

akersten 7y ago
The notion that it should take 40 million pounds to fix this is just so reflective of the disconnect between the bureaucracy and the people that actually get work done that I probably couldn't think of a better example if I tried. I can think of a couple ways to make that faster for free. Many dozens more for a lot less than a million pounds, forget 40. Arguments about "but corporate / compliance / vendor contracts / red tape" be damned. (Edit: Most of the replies to this comment are exactly this sort of thinking - It's too complicated, there's too many vendors, we can't do it, it's too hard, no one will do it for free. This is the exact kind of lack of political will to get anything done that I'm talking about. It's someone's existing job to do IT, task them with making it better - plugging in the computers to the wired network is a good free first step. Cleaning up the GPOs so Windows login doesn't take 60 seconds (!) is another freebie. Yes, these systems are complicated. That's not an excuse for them to be garbage). The decadence of IT spend is horrifying. I suspect most of it winds up lining someone's pocket.
- TomGullen 7y ago
  > I can think of a couple ways to make that faster for free. Such as?
  - fsargent 7y ago
    Auth0
    - dangus 7y ago
      And who will set that up for £0/hour?
  - petepete 7y ago
    Taking a lead from GDS and starting to create user-friendly, predictable applications with a shared design language and reusable components (like SSO, email/SMS/letter sending) would be a step in the right direction. They've already stated but it will take a long long time. https://beta.nhs.uk/service-manual/ https://beta.nhs.uk/service-manual/
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - simonh 7y ago
      That isn't free, and won't solve the same problem - logging in to existing applications being used today and for a long time into the future.
      - petepete 7y ago
        Nothing's free. You can't really deny that taking that approach is more sensible than the current, fragmented mish mash of propriety systems. The fact that they've already started down that path is a good sign.
        7y ago
laurent123456 7y ago
First the IE-only website, then the Chrome-only one. In the future, archaeologists will be able to date web apps based on what browser they support.
pjc50 7y ago
Likely causes: 1) PC is desperately under-provisioned, probably several years old and upgraded to Windows 10 2) Too large roaming profile (easy situation to get into and hard to spot other than "it's slow") 3) Too slow AD profile server to get the large profile from 4) Internal websites "should" use NTLM authentication if available, which would remove the requirement to log in again, but forwarding this outside the domain properly is remarkably hard 5) Smartcard auth can offer the dropin use case with no typing, but it's a pain to provision and costs more In many cases you'd be better off with an IBM 3270 terminal but with higher resolution text and images... In my previous job we built a Windows CE-based system that let you log in instantly by tapping a keyfob and brought the screen you were last using up anywhere on the site, running on fifteen-year-old hardware. It was for selling beer.
- lousken 7y ago
  Also 100Mbps networking, still a possibility even in 2020
  - klohto 7y ago
    Are you implying that 100Mbps is not enough? Most people live fine with 20Mbps, why would they need 100?
    - lousken 7y ago
      If you have a server that is connected via 100Mbps link to the entire network, yea, it's not enough. When multiple clients are hitting it e.g. during login, downloading updates from wsus etc. it will be painfully slow
- amaccuish 7y ago
  My sister works in the NHS. It's all smartcard based. Also kerberos could achieve the same as NTLM for SSO and is more secure, and less complicated in multi-domain setups, since the client does all the hard work rather than servers having to contact remote DCs themselves.
- 7y ago
DanBC 7y ago
Or "the systems don't talk to each other so I need 5 different log ins": https://twitter.com/katesmjenkins/status/1213419794361470976?s=20 https://twitter.com/katesmjenkins/status/1213419794361470976... https://twitter.com/KWebbNurse/status/1213544538960285702?s=20 https://twitter.com/KWebbNurse/status/1213544538960285702?s=... Or computer can't cope with twin birth either side of midnight on NYE: https://twitter.com/VoicesHeard3/status/1213482121513390080?s=20 https://twitter.com/VoicesHeard3/status/1213482121513390080?... The replies to this (labour, left wing) politician (who many HCPs will tend to support) are illustrative of some of the problems faced: https://twitter.com/AngelaRayner/status/1213469393692299264 https://twitter.com/AngelaRayner/status/1213469393692299264 And the replies to this post give a bit more idea about what's going on: https://twitter.com/NHSCCIO/status/1213390407784161281?s=20 https://twitter.com/NHSCCIO/status/1213390407784161281?s=20
rasz 7y ago
The hell? What is wrong with those computers? Atom CPUs, mechanical drive and 2GB of ram?
sk5t 7y ago
What you're describing sounds most like a) badly-written login scripts, or b) misconfigured DNS confounding the client's domain controller locator, or c) both. IME the folks who tinker with login scripts don't tend to think about execution time or failure modes, and it's tough to get a good developer assigned to that kind of work--and the MIS folks are unlikely to invite that kind of attention to their works.

akersten 7y ago

The notion that it should take 40 million pounds to fix this is just so reflective of the disconnect between the bureaucracy and the people that actually get work done that I probably couldn't think of a better example if I tried. I can think of a couple ways to make that faster for free. Many dozens more for a lot less than a million pounds, forget 40. Arguments about "but corporate / compliance / vendor contracts / red tape" be damned. (Edit: Most of the replies to this comment are exactly this sort of thinking - It's too complicated, there's too many vendors, we can't do it, it's too hard, no one will do it for free. This is the exact kind of lack of political will to get anything done that I'm talking about. It's someone's existing job to do IT, task them with making it better - plugging in the computers to the wired network is a good free first step. Cleaning up the GPOs so Windows login doesn't take 60 seconds (!) is another freebie. Yes, these systems are complicated. That's not an excuse for them to be garbage). The decadence of IT spend is horrifying. I suspect most of it winds up lining someone's pocket.

TomGullen 7y ago
> I can think of a couple ways to make that faster for free. Such as?
- fsargent 7y ago
  Auth0
  - dangus 7y ago
    And who will set that up for £0/hour?
- petepete 7y ago
  Taking a lead from GDS and starting to create user-friendly, predictable applications with a shared design language and reusable components (like SSO, email/SMS/letter sending) would be a step in the right direction. They've already stated but it will take a long long time. https://beta.nhs.uk/service-manual/ https://beta.nhs.uk/service-manual/
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - simonh 7y ago
    That isn't free, and won't solve the same problem - logging in to existing applications being used today and for a long time into the future.
    - petepete 7y ago
      Nothing's free. You can't really deny that taking that approach is more sensible than the current, fragmented mish mash of propriety systems. The fact that they've already started down that path is a good sign.
      - 7y ago

laurent123456 7y ago

First the IE-only website, then the Chrome-only one. In the future, archaeologists will be able to date web apps based on what browser they support.

pjc50 7y ago

Likely causes: 1) PC is desperately under-provisioned, probably several years old and upgraded to Windows 10 2) Too large roaming profile (easy situation to get into and hard to spot other than "it's slow") 3) Too slow AD profile server to get the large profile from 4) Internal websites "should" use NTLM authentication if available, which would remove the requirement to log in again, but forwarding this outside the domain properly is remarkably hard 5) Smartcard auth can offer the dropin use case with no typing, but it's a pain to provision and costs more In many cases you'd be better off with an IBM 3270 terminal but with higher resolution text and images... In my previous job we built a Windows CE-based system that let you log in instantly by tapping a keyfob and brought the screen you were last using up anywhere on the site, running on fifteen-year-old hardware. It was for selling beer.

lousken 7y ago
Also 100Mbps networking, still a possibility even in 2020
- klohto 7y ago
  Are you implying that 100Mbps is not enough? Most people live fine with 20Mbps, why would they need 100?
  - lousken 7y ago
    If you have a server that is connected via 100Mbps link to the entire network, yea, it's not enough. When multiple clients are hitting it e.g. during login, downloading updates from wsus etc. it will be painfully slow
amaccuish 7y ago
My sister works in the NHS. It's all smartcard based. Also kerberos could achieve the same as NTLM for SSO and is more secure, and less complicated in multi-domain setups, since the client does all the hard work rather than servers having to contact remote DCs themselves.
7y ago

DanBC 7y ago

Or "the systems don't talk to each other so I need 5 different log ins": https://twitter.com/katesmjenkins/status/1213419794361470976?s=20 https://twitter.com/katesmjenkins/status/1213419794361470976... https://twitter.com/KWebbNurse/status/1213544538960285702?s=20 https://twitter.com/KWebbNurse/status/1213544538960285702?s=... Or computer can't cope with twin birth either side of midnight on NYE: https://twitter.com/VoicesHeard3/status/1213482121513390080?s=20 https://twitter.com/VoicesHeard3/status/1213482121513390080?... The replies to this (labour, left wing) politician (who many HCPs will tend to support) are illustrative of some of the problems faced: https://twitter.com/AngelaRayner/status/1213469393692299264 https://twitter.com/AngelaRayner/status/1213469393692299264 And the replies to this post give a bit more idea about what's going on: https://twitter.com/NHSCCIO/status/1213390407784161281?s=20 https://twitter.com/NHSCCIO/status/1213390407784161281?s=20

rasz 7y ago

The hell? What is wrong with those computers? Atom CPUs, mechanical drive and 2GB of ram?

sk5t 7y ago

What you're describing sounds most like a) badly-written login scripts, or b) misconfigured DNS confounding the client's domain controller locator, or c) both. IME the folks who tinker with login scripts don't tend to think about execution time or failure modes, and it's tough to get a good developer assigned to that kind of work--and the MIS folks are unlikely to invite that kind of attention to their works.