3 ms·

Your points would be more believable if you supported them with reliable sources. For example, this says that there is an ethnicity wage gap: https://www.ons.g

by DanBC 7y ago

Your points would be more believable if you supported them with reliable sources. For example, this says that there is an ethnicity wage gap: https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/earningsandworkinghours/articles/ethnicitypaygapsingreatbritain/2018 https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwor... Figure Four of that link (which allows you to clicky to remove different groups) clearly shows that "White British" have a higher median hourly rate than "Black, African, Caribbean, or Black British". The picture for university attendance is a lot more complex. Prestigious universities are not accepting black students: https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/russell-group-universities-unfairly-rejecting-ethnic-minority-students https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/russell-group-univ... And black students appear to drop out of university at higher rates, partially because of the racism they face. The UK has a serious problem with racism.

hogFeast 7y ago
There isn't an ethnicity wage gap. If you look at data from the Low Wage Commission rather than ONS data (or indeed, any academic work on this) it is very clear (i.e. data that actually uses proper independent variables and looks at within-occupation differentials...the issue with the data reported by the BBC is that the model is underspecified and the unexplained variance is all attributed to racism...this defies logic). Btw, it is very clear that some ethnic minorities are underpaid and excluded from certain occupations (i.e. they are underpaid within occupation, aren't promoted, and are excluded from occupations systemically)...but it is Pakastani/Bangladeshi, not blacks. What racism? There is evidence that the UK is one of the most racially tolerant societies in Europe and comparable with any other developed country (admittedly, Europe is not a good comparison because of the prevalence of intolerance there) - https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fsoc.2019.00012/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fsoc.2019.00012... I will say that I have observed a definite change of attitude by black students however. I went to the university local to me, there are a huge number of non-white students (majority in some faculties) and I have never observed any problem ever (discussing race or nationality would make no sense to any of the students there). The Afro-Carribean society (one, btw, that has always had white members) held an event where white people were banned from attending (again, not just non-black...specifically white) on the subject of resisting white culture. This is a Russell Group uni that you need 3As for in almost every course. This is the result of hammering the idea of racism and inferiority into one group and repeatedly telling them that other people think they are less than. The idea that this is reducing intolerance is quite contrary to all the evidence. Btw, it is kind of funny that the UK has a solution for this problem...it works...and no-one is interested. The only thing you seem to care about is more identity wars, more conflict, more hate.
- DanBC 7y ago
  > If you look at data from the Low Wage Commission rather than ONS data If you're rejecting the Office for National Statistics there's not much I can do. These are robust and reliable stats with detailed information about method and limitation. Do you mean the Low Pay Commission? Can you link to their report, because I can't find it. The only report I could find from them is this, which disagrees with your point. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/747546/ethnicity-pay-reporting-consultation.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/... > Once in work, evidence shows that people from ethnic minorities progress less far and earn less money than their white counterparts. Baroness McGregor-Smith led an independent review of the issues faced by businesses in developing ethnic minority talent from recruitment through to executive level. Race in the Workplacereported a number of areas of concern at the time: Here's the Equality and Human Rights Commission Report, but that supports my point that black people are paid less than white people in the UK. (Page 29 median wage) https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/sites/default/files/research-report-108-the-ethnicity-pay-gap.pdf https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/sites/default/files/rese... Or there's this research: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/0950017012445095 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/095001701244509... > Research repeatedly demonstrates significant ethnic labour market disparities in Britain. While some groups do better than the white British majority, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis and black Africans suffer higher rates of unemployment, lower occupational status and lower earnings (Berthoud, 2000; Heath and Cheung, 2006; Heath and McMahon, 1997; Platt, 2005). Such ethnic penalties remain even after controlling statistically for indi-vidual differences, for instance in respect of education. > What racism? > there are a huge number of non-white students You appear to be splitting people into "white" and "non-white", and then looking at the non-white group as a whole. That's not a good idea because it causes you to come to incorrect conclusions.
pnako 7y ago
Do you think that, given the tremendous issues resulting from multiculturalism, it would thus make sense to stop that experiment and maybe have Africans achieve in Africa, Pakistanis achieve in Pakistan, and so on?

by DanBC 7y ago

hogFeast 7y ago

There isn't an ethnicity wage gap. If you look at data from the Low Wage Commission rather than ONS data (or indeed, any academic work on this) it is very clear (i.e. data that actually uses proper independent variables and looks at within-occupation differentials...the issue with the data reported by the BBC is that the model is underspecified and the unexplained variance is all attributed to racism...this defies logic). Btw, it is very clear that some ethnic minorities are underpaid and excluded from certain occupations (i.e. they are underpaid within occupation, aren't promoted, and are excluded from occupations systemically)...but it is Pakastani/Bangladeshi, not blacks. What racism? There is evidence that the UK is one of the most racially tolerant societies in Europe and comparable with any other developed country (admittedly, Europe is not a good comparison because of the prevalence of intolerance there) - https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fsoc.2019.00012/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fsoc.2019.00012... I will say that I have observed a definite change of attitude by black students however. I went to the university local to me, there are a huge number of non-white students (majority in some faculties) and I have never observed any problem ever (discussing race or nationality would make no sense to any of the students there). The Afro-Carribean society (one, btw, that has always had white members) held an event where white people were banned from attending (again, not just non-black...specifically white) on the subject of resisting white culture. This is a Russell Group uni that you need 3As for in almost every course. This is the result of hammering the idea of racism and inferiority into one group and repeatedly telling them that other people think they are less than. The idea that this is reducing intolerance is quite contrary to all the evidence. Btw, it is kind of funny that the UK has a solution for this problem...it works...and no-one is interested. The only thing you seem to care about is more identity wars, more conflict, more hate.

DanBC 7y ago
> If you look at data from the Low Wage Commission rather than ONS data If you're rejecting the Office for National Statistics there's not much I can do. These are robust and reliable stats with detailed information about method and limitation. Do you mean the Low Pay Commission? Can you link to their report, because I can't find it. The only report I could find from them is this, which disagrees with your point. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/747546/ethnicity-pay-reporting-consultation.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/... > Once in work, evidence shows that people from ethnic minorities progress less far and earn less money than their white counterparts. Baroness McGregor-Smith led an independent review of the issues faced by businesses in developing ethnic minority talent from recruitment through to executive level. Race in the Workplacereported a number of areas of concern at the time: Here's the Equality and Human Rights Commission Report, but that supports my point that black people are paid less than white people in the UK. (Page 29 median wage) https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/sites/default/files/research-report-108-the-ethnicity-pay-gap.pdf https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/sites/default/files/rese... Or there's this research: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/0950017012445095 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/095001701244509... > Research repeatedly demonstrates significant ethnic labour market disparities in Britain. While some groups do better than the white British majority, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis and black Africans suffer higher rates of unemployment, lower occupational status and lower earnings (Berthoud, 2000; Heath and Cheung, 2006; Heath and McMahon, 1997; Platt, 2005). Such ethnic penalties remain even after controlling statistically for indi-vidual differences, for instance in respect of education. > What racism? > there are a huge number of non-white students You appear to be splitting people into "white" and "non-white", and then looking at the non-white group as a whole. That's not a good idea because it causes you to come to incorrect conclusions.

pnako 7y ago

Do you think that, given the tremendous issues resulting from multiculturalism, it would thus make sense to stop that experiment and maybe have Africans achieve in Africa, Pakistanis achieve in Pakistan, and so on?