5 ms·

Humans have an incredible history of adaptation and survival, and I do agree climate change is a big problem. The metrics are all going the wrong way, but I see

Humans have an incredible history of adaptation and survival, and I do agree climate change is a big problem. The metrics are all going the wrong way, but I see the fallout (famine, disease, death, etc) as a natural corrective mechanism. Earth has a long history of hot and cold periods, the only difference being this time it's largely caused by humans. We survived the plague, world wars, and much more, so I think we (as a species) will still be around on this rock for a long time to come.

Tronno 7y ago
Of course humans will survive, but what about our civilization? That seems less likely. I also fear the "natural correction" will be violent, painful, and potentially apocalyptic in scale. Watching everything we built crumble, watching our children suffer, etc, would be horrific. We have to do something.
- brenden2 7y ago
  Entire civilizations have been destroyed before, notably the Roman Empire. Humans came back stronger and more well off.
  - ncmncm 7y ago
    Humans, outside cities, were not then dependent on long-distance food transport. Furthermore, the Roman Empire was not destroyed. It declined over centuries. Catastrophic collapse is an entirely different phenomenon. It matters which humans. If you mean that after six billion starve, the remnants will have access to substantial remaining infrastructure, OK. Probably the wars won't destroy most of it.
    - brenden2 7y ago
      FWIW the word "collapse" appears 7 times in the Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Empire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Empire
      - ncmncm 7y ago
        The retraction of the western part of the empire, and move of the capital to Constantinople, was conflated as a collapse via the anti-oriental bias of Gibbons, which has colored subsequent perceptions. The Empire carried on as a major power for centuries after.
YZF 7y ago
We are also pretty fragile and adapt (evolutionary) really slowly. Whenever there's some local major disaster (fires, earthquakes, tsunami, volcanic eruptions, mud slides, floods, hurricanes) we don't really do so well locally so I'm not sure we'll do that much better under some global major changes. The worst case scenarios here look pretty bad and our lack of ability to respond so far seems to indicate we just won't be able to respond. Humanity is taking a big gamble here. Win, and we maybe have slightly higher standard of living (whatever that really means), lose and we can't live on this planet any more. That's a pretty dumb gamble to be taking as a whole, it's just some people think they'll end up ahead of the others.
- ncmncm 7y ago
  On the bright side, after worldwide collapse, fossil fuel and CO2 production will naturally plummet. Provided that doesn't actually trigger an ice age, the earth will shortly become more habitable.
  - gremlinsinc 7y ago
    Assuming there are plants/animals left that are edible and usable topsoil returns. Else we'll have to wait for single cells to evolve into beef in order to thrive.
    - ncmncm 7y ago
      The ocean will take longer to recover. Unless there is an ice age.
gmuslera 7y ago
We are a lot of people, tied to hard built cities, and depend on a lot of things running smoothly (food, comunications, world peace, and more). Disrupt that (and the way the climate is changing will disrupt everything) and you won't be able to sustain a civilization like ours. And as AIDS, it won't kill you, but it may put you in a position where otherwise minor problems may become lethal (wars, plagues, self-destructive social trends, etc)
perfunctory 7y ago
> I see the fallout (famine, disease, death, etc) as a natural corrective mechanism Correct me if I'm wrong but I guess that most people who say these sorts of things don't believe that this natural corrective mechanism will affect them personally. We (as a species) did survive world wars indeed, but I wouldn't envy anyone who had to live through it.

Tronno 7y ago

Of course humans will survive, but what about our civilization? That seems less likely. I also fear the "natural correction" will be violent, painful, and potentially apocalyptic in scale. Watching everything we built crumble, watching our children suffer, etc, would be horrific. We have to do something.

brenden2 7y ago
Entire civilizations have been destroyed before, notably the Roman Empire. Humans came back stronger and more well off.
- ncmncm 7y ago
  Humans, outside cities, were not then dependent on long-distance food transport. Furthermore, the Roman Empire was not destroyed. It declined over centuries. Catastrophic collapse is an entirely different phenomenon. It matters which humans. If you mean that after six billion starve, the remnants will have access to substantial remaining infrastructure, OK. Probably the wars won't destroy most of it.
  - brenden2 7y ago
    FWIW the word "collapse" appears 7 times in the Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Empire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Empire
    - ncmncm 7y ago
      The retraction of the western part of the empire, and move of the capital to Constantinople, was conflated as a collapse via the anti-oriental bias of Gibbons, which has colored subsequent perceptions. The Empire carried on as a major power for centuries after.

YZF 7y ago

We are also pretty fragile and adapt (evolutionary) really slowly. Whenever there's some local major disaster (fires, earthquakes, tsunami, volcanic eruptions, mud slides, floods, hurricanes) we don't really do so well locally so I'm not sure we'll do that much better under some global major changes. The worst case scenarios here look pretty bad and our lack of ability to respond so far seems to indicate we just won't be able to respond. Humanity is taking a big gamble here. Win, and we maybe have slightly higher standard of living (whatever that really means), lose and we can't live on this planet any more. That's a pretty dumb gamble to be taking as a whole, it's just some people think they'll end up ahead of the others.

ncmncm 7y ago
On the bright side, after worldwide collapse, fossil fuel and CO2 production will naturally plummet. Provided that doesn't actually trigger an ice age, the earth will shortly become more habitable.
- gremlinsinc 7y ago
  Assuming there are plants/animals left that are edible and usable topsoil returns. Else we'll have to wait for single cells to evolve into beef in order to thrive.
  - ncmncm 7y ago
    The ocean will take longer to recover. Unless there is an ice age.

gmuslera 7y ago

We are a lot of people, tied to hard built cities, and depend on a lot of things running smoothly (food, comunications, world peace, and more). Disrupt that (and the way the climate is changing will disrupt everything) and you won't be able to sustain a civilization like ours. And as AIDS, it won't kill you, but it may put you in a position where otherwise minor problems may become lethal (wars, plagues, self-destructive social trends, etc)

perfunctory 7y ago

> I see the fallout (famine, disease, death, etc) as a natural corrective mechanism Correct me if I'm wrong but I guess that most people who say these sorts of things don't believe that this natural corrective mechanism will affect them personally. We (as a species) did survive world wars indeed, but I wouldn't envy anyone who had to live through it.