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I can't read the article seems have suffered HN effect. Speaking as a black man in Africa which is somewhat different to the US I do agree with the title. Afric

I can't read the article seems have suffered HN effect. Speaking as a black man in Africa which is somewhat different to the US I do agree with the title. Africa is different because the first educated generation is my parents generation who are 70+. Off course they are exceptions. My parents who were teachers coming from pure village setup didn't have any mentors. No one explained mortgage to them, they learnt that in school but no uncle, grandparent, cousin or anyone in their circle had ever had a mortgage. It was a new world to them. That generation did well. They lived the village principles, spent a lot of money educating whole villages and taking care of everyone because they the ones who worked. My parents couldn't teach me about money, they don't understand that debt is okay as long as you have a plan to pay it back. In their mind it is a bad idea. I have thus grown up risk averse and it took a long long time to understand how the business world works. Its fine though because you cannot learn these things in one generation. I am generalising but most of my peers don't understand VC funding and startups. My daughter will definitely have a much better understanding of the world as I can pass onto her. These things take generations. Extremely few businesses have been run by African's from one generation to the next. The world is changing, our grandparents were subsistence farmers, our parents were born in villages and still had cows and we were born in cities and towns. A fair number of my generation don't know what to do with a cow and my child's generation are born in town to parents who are professionals as in IT developers, lawyers, accountants and so on.

tehlike 7y ago
This is true, coming from a middle class family employed by government, i can attest most things like this are passed down from family. I have been lucky to have come to Us at the beginning of my career, though, so it has been mostly easy to figure out. Debt is part of wealth building.
scabarott 7y ago
Your grandparents may not have been able to teach your parents about mortgages, taxes etc. but they were able to teach them about discipline, conscientiousness, hardwork, thrift etc. These count for something. This situation is not unique to Africa, there are (white) Americans (especially from poorer places like Appalachia or even just outside of the big coastal cities) who don't grow up familiar with credit cards, venture capital or the notion of going to college etc. and have to figure these out for themselves as adults (see for e.g 'Hillbilly Elegy or 'Educated' by Tara Westover). Of course they're not quite in the same bucket but my point is there are age old 'qualities' that can go a long way to help make up for lack of specific knowledge.
- mmsimanga 7y ago
  Absolutely agree that grandparents were able to successfully impart useful life lessons. This is why I allude to the fact that our parents generation educated whole villages because they were hardworking (implied), generous and selfless.
krnsll 7y ago
Thanks for sharing this. I'm inclined to agree with your observations/reflections. Moreover, I suspect this might be common to the post-colonial experience [fn0] , if we account for: (a) what life was like under colonial rule; (b) how stratified such societies were before/after independence; (c) the forms of government (statist or plutocratic/military regimes) that replaced the colonial structures. These points and your overall observations ring particularly true when I consider the case of people (usually older generations) I've met from India (and South Asia generally) with the risk averse, at times counterproductive frugal, mindset that the Nehruvian state encouraged. [fn1] [fn0]: Here, I may be incorrectly inferring your origins to be in a former colony. [fn1]: For Indian readers, I hope this comment doesn't initiate a partisan discussion. :-)
- mmsimanga 7y ago
  Yes from former colony and still reside in another former colony on the African continent. I am staying away from commenting on government influence just commenting as a person and my observations. Government is a whole other conversation.
badrabbit 7y ago
FWIW, I strongly believe debt is never ok. It can be ok in the same way a hospital surgery is ok (you have no choice). Mortgages are not sustainable either. Just because the practice has been popularized in the west for centuries,it does not make it a sound practice. It is possible to buy a house with money you saved. This also makes a lot of sense when the house will be passed on to the next generation (like it is done in africa). Debt is spending your future cashflow for short term gains. Cash flow/liquidity is much more important than equity and net wealth(short term). I'm sure you know the old principle of "being poor is expensive" and "you need money to make money". Debt takes away your liquidity, the small things/"broken windows" you will always need to care for become neglected. Unplanned emergencies ruin your plans,etc... At a national level, you should know how many african nations have borrowed endlessly and still gotten nowhere. Even after debts are forgiven and stable peacful times last decades. Accepting debt is accepting a parasite. Havig a plan to pay it off is essentially saying you have a plan to kill the parasite before it kills you. Similar to how people think "it's ok, I can quit" before getting hooked on drugs. YMMV.
- leereeves 7y ago
  > Mortgages are not sustainable either. Just because the practice has been popularized in the west for centuries,it does not make it a sound practice. > It is possible to buy a house with money you saved. ...with decades of savings. Until you have those savings, how is paying rent to a landlord preferable to paying mortgage interest to a bank?
  - badrabbit 7y ago
    It wouldn't be that expensive if the practice of mortgage wasn't so rampant. It's worth what people are willing to pay for it. And like i said, if people lived with their family longer,even after marriage and houses were passed along generations more, there would even less demand driving down the cost. Not too many decades ago, all you had to do is save up a few years (US) to buy a house, am I wrong? It costs an arm and a leg now because the default way is debt and people will take on a million dollars of debt with $30k/yr income if someone gives them the loan. So the driver of housing prices is not people's income but bank's willingness to loan -- that's why it costs decades ,one spectacular example of why debt is not "ok".

tehlike 7y ago

This is true, coming from a middle class family employed by government, i can attest most things like this are passed down from family. I have been lucky to have come to Us at the beginning of my career, though, so it has been mostly easy to figure out. Debt is part of wealth building.

scabarott 7y ago

Your grandparents may not have been able to teach your parents about mortgages, taxes etc. but they were able to teach them about discipline, conscientiousness, hardwork, thrift etc. These count for something. This situation is not unique to Africa, there are (white) Americans (especially from poorer places like Appalachia or even just outside of the big coastal cities) who don't grow up familiar with credit cards, venture capital or the notion of going to college etc. and have to figure these out for themselves as adults (see for e.g 'Hillbilly Elegy or 'Educated' by Tara Westover). Of course they're not quite in the same bucket but my point is there are age old 'qualities' that can go a long way to help make up for lack of specific knowledge.

mmsimanga 7y ago
Absolutely agree that grandparents were able to successfully impart useful life lessons. This is why I allude to the fact that our parents generation educated whole villages because they were hardworking (implied), generous and selfless.

krnsll 7y ago

Thanks for sharing this. I'm inclined to agree with your observations/reflections. Moreover, I suspect this might be common to the post-colonial experience [fn0] , if we account for: (a) what life was like under colonial rule; (b) how stratified such societies were before/after independence; (c) the forms of government (statist or plutocratic/military regimes) that replaced the colonial structures. These points and your overall observations ring particularly true when I consider the case of people (usually older generations) I've met from India (and South Asia generally) with the risk averse, at times counterproductive frugal, mindset that the Nehruvian state encouraged. [fn1] [fn0]: Here, I may be incorrectly inferring your origins to be in a former colony. [fn1]: For Indian readers, I hope this comment doesn't initiate a partisan discussion. :-)

mmsimanga 7y ago
Yes from former colony and still reside in another former colony on the African continent. I am staying away from commenting on government influence just commenting as a person and my observations. Government is a whole other conversation.

badrabbit 7y ago

FWIW, I strongly believe debt is never ok. It can be ok in the same way a hospital surgery is ok (you have no choice). Mortgages are not sustainable either. Just because the practice has been popularized in the west for centuries,it does not make it a sound practice. It is possible to buy a house with money you saved. This also makes a lot of sense when the house will be passed on to the next generation (like it is done in africa). Debt is spending your future cashflow for short term gains. Cash flow/liquidity is much more important than equity and net wealth(short term). I'm sure you know the old principle of "being poor is expensive" and "you need money to make money". Debt takes away your liquidity, the small things/"broken windows" you will always need to care for become neglected. Unplanned emergencies ruin your plans,etc... At a national level, you should know how many african nations have borrowed endlessly and still gotten nowhere. Even after debts are forgiven and stable peacful times last decades. Accepting debt is accepting a parasite. Havig a plan to pay it off is essentially saying you have a plan to kill the parasite before it kills you. Similar to how people think "it's ok, I can quit" before getting hooked on drugs. YMMV.

leereeves 7y ago
> Mortgages are not sustainable either. Just because the practice has been popularized in the west for centuries,it does not make it a sound practice. > It is possible to buy a house with money you saved. ...with decades of savings. Until you have those savings, how is paying rent to a landlord preferable to paying mortgage interest to a bank?
- badrabbit 7y ago
  It wouldn't be that expensive if the practice of mortgage wasn't so rampant. It's worth what people are willing to pay for it. And like i said, if people lived with their family longer,even after marriage and houses were passed along generations more, there would even less demand driving down the cost. Not too many decades ago, all you had to do is save up a few years (US) to buy a house, am I wrong? It costs an arm and a leg now because the default way is debt and people will take on a million dollars of debt with $30k/yr income if someone gives them the loan. So the driver of housing prices is not people's income but bank's willingness to loan -- that's why it costs decades ,one spectacular example of why debt is not "ok".