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You are missing the point. (the "tired responses") No, there only very few cases, such as shaving video encoding time (the one that started all this mess aroun

by tuldia 7y ago

You are missing the point. (the "tired responses") No, there only very few cases, such as shaving video encoding time (the one that started all this mess around "serverless") For majority of other cases, using "(human) resource efficient" or "time saved managing servers" to justify the use of "serverless" is a plain bogus argument, since you end up shifting (best case scenario) OR spending more (worst case) time "managing the cloud's alphabet soup". I will not even start talking about the code base mess.

scarface74 7y ago
Again you only spend more time if you don’t know what you’re doing. I’m not a front end developer by any stretch of the imagination. Would it be a valid argument if I said that React isn’t a good solution because I have years of experienced with server side rendering? Again, don’t blame the tools just because you didn’t take the time to learn how to use them efficiently. If my name doesn’t give you a clue,I was around and developing way before AWS or hosted solutions was a thing. Being able to provision resources by writing yaml and not having to deal with the infrastructure gatekeepers is a godsend. No, there only very few cases, such as shaving video encoding time (the one that started all this mess around "serverless") There are millions of people using computers in countless different ways. Are you sure that you know all of the valid use cases?
- tuldia 7y ago
  > If my name doesn’t give you a clue,I was around and developing way before AWS or hosted solutions was a thing. Being able to provision resources by writing yaml and not having to deal with the infrastructure gatekeepers is a godsend. Take some time to learn some soft skills, just enough to be able to convince people to do stuff for you, if you are the "throw over the wall ones" I recommend to get out of your sillo and interact well with the rest of your team :) The problem with "serverless" is this kind of attitude around it.
  - scarface74 7y ago
    My team and management (who is even older than I am so he’s not a young idealist by any means) are aggressively “killing as many pets” as possible and going all in on managed services and serviceless - including lambda, Fargate (Serverless Docker), CodeBuild (Serverless builds), AWS SFTP (getting rid of our sftp server). Don’t get me started on the “cloud consultants” who were just a bunch of old school net ops folks who only knew how to click around on the web console and duplicate and on prem infrastructure. Yes, working for small companies I’ve had to manage servers and networks back in the day in addition to development. We would even go with “Aurora Serverless” for our non production environments if it had feature parity with regular Aurora.
    - Rapzid 7y ago
      To bolster you argument a bit.. I have a background in systems engineering building public/private cloud from hardware(cab and networking physical and logical provisioning) to VM provisioning automation and tooling. I've provided managed server, PHP hosting, Mail, and just about any other form of support you can imagine an ISP/Hosting provider needing to provide. These days I deal more with full stack development and SRE type work. I ACTIVELY AVOID running servers, using tools like Chef and Ansible, and running kubernetes clusters unless there is a strong value proposition for them that can't be ignored. This despite the fact that I have no gatekeepers and ton of experience with all of them.
cddotdotslash 7y ago
The poster above me does a better job of articulating the points I had, but at the end of the day, it seems to me like you are discounting an entire model of compute, part of an industry, the work that tons of developers are doing, not to mention new and interesting ways of developing new things, simply because you either don't want to learn something new or because you're attached to an existing way. Note that I've never once said that running your own mail server is the wrong thing to do, because I don't claim to know everyone's complex environments. Instead, I'm pushing back against this habit of immediately discounting anything new simply because it replaces an older way of operating. Fortunately the industry as a whole seems much more receptive to new things, otherwise we'd still be on mainframes everywhere, right?
- rumanator 7y ago
  > The poster above me does a better job of articulating the points I had, but at the end of the day, it seems to me like you are discounting an entire model of compute, part of an industry, the work that tons of developers are doing, not to mention new and interesting ways of developing new things, simply because you either don't want to learn something new or because you're attached to an existing way. This mix of appeal to authority with the sunken cost fallacy makes no sense at all and does nothing to show any merit or present any technical case. Your argument boils down to launching personal attacks on anyone who has the gall to not jump onto the bandwagon you've jumped on. Yet, if you wish to make a case for a tool then you have to obligation to actually present a case and demonstrate the advantages. Bullying those who don't blindly follow buzzword-driven development principles and resorting to name-calling just wastes everyone's time, and actually just creates noise that muffles the contributions of those who actually have something interesting to say regarding the tecnology.

by tuldia 7y ago

scarface74 7y ago

Again you only spend more time if you don’t know what you’re doing. I’m not a front end developer by any stretch of the imagination. Would it be a valid argument if I said that React isn’t a good solution because I have years of experienced with server side rendering? Again, don’t blame the tools just because you didn’t take the time to learn how to use them efficiently. If my name doesn’t give you a clue,I was around and developing way before AWS or hosted solutions was a thing. Being able to provision resources by writing yaml and not having to deal with the infrastructure gatekeepers is a godsend. No, there only very few cases, such as shaving video encoding time (the one that started all this mess around "serverless") There are millions of people using computers in countless different ways. Are you sure that you know all of the valid use cases?

tuldia 7y ago
> If my name doesn’t give you a clue,I was around and developing way before AWS or hosted solutions was a thing. Being able to provision resources by writing yaml and not having to deal with the infrastructure gatekeepers is a godsend. Take some time to learn some soft skills, just enough to be able to convince people to do stuff for you, if you are the "throw over the wall ones" I recommend to get out of your sillo and interact well with the rest of your team :) The problem with "serverless" is this kind of attitude around it.
- scarface74 7y ago
  My team and management (who is even older than I am so he’s not a young idealist by any means) are aggressively “killing as many pets” as possible and going all in on managed services and serviceless - including lambda, Fargate (Serverless Docker), CodeBuild (Serverless builds), AWS SFTP (getting rid of our sftp server). Don’t get me started on the “cloud consultants” who were just a bunch of old school net ops folks who only knew how to click around on the web console and duplicate and on prem infrastructure. Yes, working for small companies I’ve had to manage servers and networks back in the day in addition to development. We would even go with “Aurora Serverless” for our non production environments if it had feature parity with regular Aurora.
  - Rapzid 7y ago
    To bolster you argument a bit.. I have a background in systems engineering building public/private cloud from hardware(cab and networking physical and logical provisioning) to VM provisioning automation and tooling. I've provided managed server, PHP hosting, Mail, and just about any other form of support you can imagine an ISP/Hosting provider needing to provide. These days I deal more with full stack development and SRE type work. I ACTIVELY AVOID running servers, using tools like Chef and Ansible, and running kubernetes clusters unless there is a strong value proposition for them that can't be ignored. This despite the fact that I have no gatekeepers and ton of experience with all of them.

cddotdotslash 7y ago

The poster above me does a better job of articulating the points I had, but at the end of the day, it seems to me like you are discounting an entire model of compute, part of an industry, the work that tons of developers are doing, not to mention new and interesting ways of developing new things, simply because you either don't want to learn something new or because you're attached to an existing way. Note that I've never once said that running your own mail server is the wrong thing to do, because I don't claim to know everyone's complex environments. Instead, I'm pushing back against this habit of immediately discounting anything new simply because it replaces an older way of operating. Fortunately the industry as a whole seems much more receptive to new things, otherwise we'd still be on mainframes everywhere, right?

rumanator 7y ago
> The poster above me does a better job of articulating the points I had, but at the end of the day, it seems to me like you are discounting an entire model of compute, part of an industry, the work that tons of developers are doing, not to mention new and interesting ways of developing new things, simply because you either don't want to learn something new or because you're attached to an existing way. This mix of appeal to authority with the sunken cost fallacy makes no sense at all and does nothing to show any merit or present any technical case. Your argument boils down to launching personal attacks on anyone who has the gall to not jump onto the bandwagon you've jumped on. Yet, if you wish to make a case for a tool then you have to obligation to actually present a case and demonstrate the advantages. Bullying those who don't blindly follow buzzword-driven development principles and resorting to name-calling just wastes everyone's time, and actually just creates noise that muffles the contributions of those who actually have something interesting to say regarding the tecnology.