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Wow! was my college experience weird? The only thing that felt like a "zero sum" competition for me was dating (and that, only if you restricted yourself to the

by swiley 7y ago

Wow! was my college experience weird? The only thing that felt like a "zero sum" competition for me was dating (and that, only if you restricted yourself to the engineering school. The whole university had a gender ratio of something like 3:1.) Most interactions I had with people where pleasant. One of the first interactions I remember was comparing Mandelbrot viewers with another person that taught themselves to program in their teens. Neither was "better" IMO: his was faster but required a specific Nvidia card, mine was slower but could run on nearly anything including my e-ink kindle. Most of my other friendships where like this, we built things and did things together and that doesn't take anything away from anyone. My learning math doesn't make you worse at it and your understanding of chemistry won't make me worse at it. I think people tend to naturally turn things into zero sum competitions when they really don't need to be. I think the author is right though, it's true zero sum competitions that make enemies and the only person I've ever thought of as an enemy was a "friend" that my ex constantly visited at night before breaking up with me.

alamaslah 7y ago
Do you think the behaviour you describe in the first paragraph is connected to the result in the second?
mannykannot 7y ago
Could it be that dating was the only situation where you experienced the feeling of being on the losing side?
- swiley 7y ago
  But the only way to lose in the situations in the first paragraph is by just not doing anything! Literally show up and do something and you make everything better for everyone including yourself!
  - mannykannot 7y ago
    Dating is not actually a zero-sum game either; the issue here is more about perceptions than things necessarily being so.
    - lonelappde 7y ago
      If you are heterosexual in a non 1:1 balanced environment, then romantic partners are a rivalrous good.
      - mannykannot 7y ago
        Sure, if the count is just of how many people are dating, but any such model grossly oversimplifies the complexity of human relationships - though, for the subset of people who approach dating with this mindset, it might be accurate. This could also be said for a number of other 'games' mentioned in the article.
- bookofjoe 7y ago
  "Fleabag" offers wonderful commentary on this subject (among many others).
mrep 7y ago
When I went to Purdue, all my math classes and most of my CS classes were pretty much zero sum in that they would make the tests super hard so that the average would be like a 60% and then they would bell curve everyone's grade around the average. Combining the bell curve with the fact that you need a C or higher to pass the class resulted in some students out of each class having to retake it just to continue on with their major. I myself had to retake 3 classes and I have been advising a worried parent whose son is currently at Purdue majoring in CS because he is now having to retake a 4th class and he is only a junior.
- lonelappde 7y ago
  That seems fine. Students who learn quickly move up quickly. Students who learn slowly take more time to learn the material (and set the curve next time). It's bad to push ahead to higher level courses while still not understanding fundamentals.
  - NotSammyHagar 7y ago
    This sounds horrifying to me! Is it common at other schools for cs undergrad or other stem, that people in the heart of a major have to take a few classes over? I have never heard of this. I'm not saying you are a terrible student (I'm thinking the opposite, to survive that, you or the OP must have a lot of will power and resilience!) it just sounds like a very, very difficult major; what if you don't pass something well enough the second time? I went to a far less prestigious school that you've never heard of. There were some people not passing classes in my cs major, but it was rare, almost unheard of after the first year. After I got to grad school I realized in comparison my undergrad wasn't that challenging. If I had failed a class or even gotten a C in undergrad it would have been pretty devastating. I was the top student in the dept (not bragging, I'm sure at mit or another great school I would have been far from the top ;-)). When I went to grad school to get my phd (at a much better school) it was much more challenging, and I wasn't at the top like I was in undergrad. People did struggle a lot more than at my undergrad school. I was still a good student, I thought. But I also didn't see the undergrads retaking classes where it was a semi-common thing.

by swiley 7y ago

alamaslah 7y ago

Do you think the behaviour you describe in the first paragraph is connected to the result in the second?

mannykannot 7y ago

Could it be that dating was the only situation where you experienced the feeling of being on the losing side?

swiley 7y ago
But the only way to lose in the situations in the first paragraph is by just not doing anything! Literally show up and do something and you make everything better for everyone including yourself!
- mannykannot 7y ago
  Dating is not actually a zero-sum game either; the issue here is more about perceptions than things necessarily being so.
  - lonelappde 7y ago
    If you are heterosexual in a non 1:1 balanced environment, then romantic partners are a rivalrous good.
    - mannykannot 7y ago
      Sure, if the count is just of how many people are dating, but any such model grossly oversimplifies the complexity of human relationships - though, for the subset of people who approach dating with this mindset, it might be accurate. This could also be said for a number of other 'games' mentioned in the article.
bookofjoe 7y ago
"Fleabag" offers wonderful commentary on this subject (among many others).

mrep 7y ago

When I went to Purdue, all my math classes and most of my CS classes were pretty much zero sum in that they would make the tests super hard so that the average would be like a 60% and then they would bell curve everyone's grade around the average. Combining the bell curve with the fact that you need a C or higher to pass the class resulted in some students out of each class having to retake it just to continue on with their major. I myself had to retake 3 classes and I have been advising a worried parent whose son is currently at Purdue majoring in CS because he is now having to retake a 4th class and he is only a junior.

lonelappde 7y ago
That seems fine. Students who learn quickly move up quickly. Students who learn slowly take more time to learn the material (and set the curve next time). It's bad to push ahead to higher level courses while still not understanding fundamentals.
- NotSammyHagar 7y ago
  This sounds horrifying to me! Is it common at other schools for cs undergrad or other stem, that people in the heart of a major have to take a few classes over? I have never heard of this. I'm not saying you are a terrible student (I'm thinking the opposite, to survive that, you or the OP must have a lot of will power and resilience!) it just sounds like a very, very difficult major; what if you don't pass something well enough the second time? I went to a far less prestigious school that you've never heard of. There were some people not passing classes in my cs major, but it was rare, almost unheard of after the first year. After I got to grad school I realized in comparison my undergrad wasn't that challenging. If I had failed a class or even gotten a C in undergrad it would have been pretty devastating. I was the top student in the dept (not bragging, I'm sure at mit or another great school I would have been far from the top ;-)). When I went to grad school to get my phd (at a much better school) it was much more challenging, and I wasn't at the top like I was in undergrad. People did struggle a lot more than at my undergrad school. I was still a good student, I thought. But I also didn't see the undergrads retaking classes where it was a semi-common thing.