5 ms·

Australia is burning, its government doesn't seem to think anything is wrong, they just want to dig more coal

mikro2nd 7y ago
They might not get the chance: latest news[1] this morning is that some of the coal seams have caught fire underground! This is catastrophic. Underground coal (and oil) fires are near-impossible to put out and are generally just left alone to burn, usually for decades before/if they run out of fuel. [1] https://twitter.com/maetl/status/1213420680579964929?s=20 https://twitter.com/maetl/status/1213420680579964929?s=20
- selimthegrim 7y ago
  Is there a source for this assertion?
  - scrollaway 7y ago
    It's a decently well-known phenomenon. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal-seam_fire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal-seam_fire For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centralia_mine_fire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centralia_mine_fire -- Started burning in 1962. Still burning today and on track to burn for another 250 years.
    - selimthegrim 7y ago
      I meant the news item, but thank you.
- pnako 7y ago
  The oldest one is about 6,000 years old https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_Mountain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_Mountain
- squarefoot 7y ago
  If that's the case then it's truly catastrophic. As an example, the Centralia (USA) mine coal-seam fire started in 1962 is extimated to last for about 250 more years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centralia_mine_fire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centralia_mine_fire Assuming we have the technology, removing underground oxygen might help to put out the underground fires, though I can't imagine any process not involving either pumping sea water down there which would make the land sterile for vegetation, or slowly replacing oxygen with CO2 which would be even worse.
  - blueatlas 7y ago
    Carbondale, PA tried flooding and other techniques for the time (1950's), but ultimately the only way to extinguish it was by digging it out. It took about 10 years and it is estimated more earth than the Panama Canal was moved for the dig. It came within 20 feet of expanding into the core of the city and leading to what happened in Centrailia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbondale_mine_fire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbondale_mine_fire
- vjng 7y ago
  Quite a lot of the coal mines in Australia are open cut unfortunately. That's just one underground mine of many.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
lazyjones 7y ago
Australia is burning every year. The main reason why it's burning so much right now is that not enough prescribed burns were done earlier in the season.
- bamboozled 7y ago
  The reason it’s burning so much now is it’s hotter and drier than before? I can’t imagine prescribed burns would’ve made it rain and stopped the temperature from reaching 48.9 in Sydney, can you ?
  - lazyjones 7y ago
    Prescribed burns reduce the amount of fuel available for wildfires, so logically the fires will be less severe if they are taken care of. It's an essential, if not the most essential part of wildfire prevention.
- anotherevan 7y ago
  Although the following links focus on the recent, "It's all the greenies fault," rhetoric that has been sweeping through Facebook and other places the last couple of days, it does also provide information about hazard reduction burns from people who work in the field (AKA experts). https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/nov/12/is-there-really-a-green-conspiracy-to-stop-bushfire-hazard-reduction https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/nov/12/is-th... https://nitter.net/jagungal1/status/1212937426034782208 https://nitter.net/jagungal1/status/1212937426034782208
  - lazyjones 7y ago
    Another source: https://www.smh.com.au/national/prescribed-burning-key-to-controlling-fires-20191129-p53f9o.html https://www.smh.com.au/national/prescribed-burning-key-to-co... ''Fire captain Brian Williams, 73, vice-president of the Volunteer Fire Fighters Association, supports the prescribed burn argument. He spoke after a 12-hour night shift fighting the Three Mile fire burning north-east of Wiseman's Ferry. Mr Williams said: "The hazard-approval process is what is stuffing the whole process. "It is bogged down by green [environmental] and red tape which makes getting approval for a prescribed burn a very slow and complex process. "They have introduced a system that makes it virtually impossible to manage the bush in a sustainable way. I am just one of thousands of volunteers out there who are frustrated."''

They might not get the chance: latest news[1] this morning is that some of the coal seams have caught fire underground! This is catastrophic. Underground coal (and oil) fires are near-impossible to put out and are generally just left alone to burn, usually for decades before/if they run out of fuel. [1] https://twitter.com/maetl/status/1213420680579964929?s=20 https://twitter.com/maetl/status/1213420680579964929?s=20

selimthegrim 7y ago
Is there a source for this assertion?
- scrollaway 7y ago
  It's a decently well-known phenomenon. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal-seam_fire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal-seam_fire For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centralia_mine_fire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centralia_mine_fire -- Started burning in 1962. Still burning today and on track to burn for another 250 years.
  - selimthegrim 7y ago
    I meant the news item, but thank you.
pnako 7y ago
The oldest one is about 6,000 years old https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_Mountain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_Mountain
squarefoot 7y ago
If that's the case then it's truly catastrophic. As an example, the Centralia (USA) mine coal-seam fire started in 1962 is extimated to last for about 250 more years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centralia_mine_fire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centralia_mine_fire Assuming we have the technology, removing underground oxygen might help to put out the underground fires, though I can't imagine any process not involving either pumping sea water down there which would make the land sterile for vegetation, or slowly replacing oxygen with CO2 which would be even worse.
- blueatlas 7y ago
  Carbondale, PA tried flooding and other techniques for the time (1950's), but ultimately the only way to extinguish it was by digging it out. It took about 10 years and it is estimated more earth than the Panama Canal was moved for the dig. It came within 20 feet of expanding into the core of the city and leading to what happened in Centrailia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbondale_mine_fire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbondale_mine_fire
vjng 7y ago
Quite a lot of the coal mines in Australia are open cut unfortunately. That's just one underground mine of many.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

lazyjones 7y ago

Australia is burning every year. The main reason why it's burning so much right now is that not enough prescribed burns were done earlier in the season.

bamboozled 7y ago
The reason it’s burning so much now is it’s hotter and drier than before? I can’t imagine prescribed burns would’ve made it rain and stopped the temperature from reaching 48.9 in Sydney, can you ?
- lazyjones 7y ago
  Prescribed burns reduce the amount of fuel available for wildfires, so logically the fires will be less severe if they are taken care of. It's an essential, if not the most essential part of wildfire prevention.
anotherevan 7y ago
Although the following links focus on the recent, "It's all the greenies fault," rhetoric that has been sweeping through Facebook and other places the last couple of days, it does also provide information about hazard reduction burns from people who work in the field (AKA experts). https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/nov/12/is-there-really-a-green-conspiracy-to-stop-bushfire-hazard-reduction https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/nov/12/is-th... https://nitter.net/jagungal1/status/1212937426034782208 https://nitter.net/jagungal1/status/1212937426034782208
- lazyjones 7y ago
  Another source: https://www.smh.com.au/national/prescribed-burning-key-to-controlling-fires-20191129-p53f9o.html https://www.smh.com.au/national/prescribed-burning-key-to-co... ''Fire captain Brian Williams, 73, vice-president of the Volunteer Fire Fighters Association, supports the prescribed burn argument. He spoke after a 12-hour night shift fighting the Three Mile fire burning north-east of Wiseman's Ferry. Mr Williams said: "The hazard-approval process is what is stuffing the whole process. "It is bogged down by green [environmental] and red tape which makes getting approval for a prescribed burn a very slow and complex process. "They have introduced a system that makes it virtually impossible to manage the bush in a sustainable way. I am just one of thousands of volunteers out there who are frustrated."''