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I'm not surprised to see the name of Qrypt's CTO (Denis Mandich) listed as one of the "inventors" on the application, but to see the name of a New York Universi

I'm not surprised to see the name of Qrypt's CTO (Denis Mandich) listed as one of the "inventors" on the application, but to see the name of a New York University professor (Yevgeniy Dodis) is rather baffling to me. Even more since the latter is supposed to be an expert in the field of crypto. I would think that an academic professor should know better than to try patent something that is already known publicly so well. I can't help but wonder if this is just pure cynicism at work: gaming a broken patent system (for profit), at the expense of (and to hell with) any academic/scientific authority/credibility/reputation. Or is there something I'm completely missing here? Regardless of whether the patent is granted or not, and unless I'm misunderstanding the whole situation, this professor should probably be deeply ashamed of himself and maybe even be ousted from academia altogether. EDIT: Not to even start the discussion of how mathematical algorithms shouldn't be patentible in the first place. EDIT #2: Changed CEO to CTO (typo mistake)

Fnoord 7y ago
That "somebody" is Qrypt, Inc [1]. (I've never heard of them.) Denis Mandich is the CTO. Interestingly, the patent application mentions Axolotl, Signal, and what not. Not sure how this sauce is different? Because of quantum cryptography? I did find [2] from their website as well. From [1] it says: "Kevin and Denis have hand-selected a talented team of seasoned leaders in engineering, physics, and cryptography to build Qrypt’s patented solution." I guess they can add "patent pending", too. [1] https://www.qrypt.com/about https://www.qrypt.com/about [2] https://www.ornl.gov/news/qrypt-licenses-ornls-quantum-random-number-generator-fortify-encryption-methods https://www.ornl.gov/news/qrypt-licenses-ornls-quantum-rando...
egdod 7y ago
This actually is a granted patent. Claim 1 seems quite specific and detailed to me, although I’m no crypto expert. Is everything in the claims well known?
- elmo2you 7y ago
  Apparently you are right. I was mistakenly under the impression that it was still under review. I would call that claim first and foremost convoluted, more than specific and detailed, but that is a rather normal practice in patents (IFAIK). From what I've read (so far), I didn't see anything particularly innovative; not within the field of crypto at least. I'm quite confident that this is nothing particularly new to a crypto expert. I'd say it's all rather well known. Maybe not to Joe next door, but that's irrelevant. I'd say that this patent should never have been granted, but I can't say that I'm surprised that it did. However, those who filed for this patent must have known what they were doing. Unless my current view on this radically changes, I sincerely hope that it will (somehow, eventually) cost the people involved dearly. I have no sympathy for anyone who would game a broken system like that, as it so far appears they did. Even if not criminal, legally speaking, I still consider it moral corruption to a high degree.
  - hcknwscommenter 7y ago
    Convoluted? How? For all your talk of criminality and moral corruption, you seem to have no idea how to read a patent claim. You'd say it is all rather well known, but you cite to literally nothing.
senderista 7y ago
Universities patent IP all the time and some make a lot of money from it.
- elmo2you 7y ago
  Luckily there are still people who consider that a travesty of academia. The fact that it exists, doesn't make it right. Just as slave trade existed for a long time, both profitable and considered a reputable business, didn't make that right.
xwowsersx 7y ago
The haste with which you call for someone to be ousted from their field is frightening.
- Nullabillity 7y ago
  Your acceptance of people who abuse the patent system is frightening.
  - xwowsersx 7y ago
    If I don't call for someone to be ousted from their field/career then it means I accept all of their behaviors? You do realize by that logic, you have condoned a neverending list of bad behavior by anyone who has done something wrong (which, newsflash, is pretty much every human being) where you haven't called for their ouster? You may want to rethink this.
    - Nullabillity 7y ago
      > If I don't call for someone to be ousted from their field/career then it means I accept all of their behaviors? There's a difference between not asking for something, and asking for something not to happen. Besides.. There are many cases where it's a he-said-she-said debate with no clear truth, or where the ethics aren't entirely clear to begin with. But sometimes you're just dealing with the identity killer[0]. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oL895peZpqY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oL895peZpqY
  - ryanlol 7y ago
    Why exactly is this an abuse of the patent system?

Fnoord 7y ago

That "somebody" is Qrypt, Inc [1]. (I've never heard of them.) Denis Mandich is the CTO. Interestingly, the patent application mentions Axolotl, Signal, and what not. Not sure how this sauce is different? Because of quantum cryptography? I did find [2] from their website as well. From [1] it says: "Kevin and Denis have hand-selected a talented team of seasoned leaders in engineering, physics, and cryptography to build Qrypt’s patented solution." I guess they can add "patent pending", too. [1] https://www.qrypt.com/about https://www.qrypt.com/about [2] https://www.ornl.gov/news/qrypt-licenses-ornls-quantum-random-number-generator-fortify-encryption-methods https://www.ornl.gov/news/qrypt-licenses-ornls-quantum-rando...

egdod 7y ago

This actually is a granted patent. Claim 1 seems quite specific and detailed to me, although I’m no crypto expert. Is everything in the claims well known?

elmo2you 7y ago
Apparently you are right. I was mistakenly under the impression that it was still under review. I would call that claim first and foremost convoluted, more than specific and detailed, but that is a rather normal practice in patents (IFAIK). From what I've read (so far), I didn't see anything particularly innovative; not within the field of crypto at least. I'm quite confident that this is nothing particularly new to a crypto expert. I'd say it's all rather well known. Maybe not to Joe next door, but that's irrelevant. I'd say that this patent should never have been granted, but I can't say that I'm surprised that it did. However, those who filed for this patent must have known what they were doing. Unless my current view on this radically changes, I sincerely hope that it will (somehow, eventually) cost the people involved dearly. I have no sympathy for anyone who would game a broken system like that, as it so far appears they did. Even if not criminal, legally speaking, I still consider it moral corruption to a high degree.
- hcknwscommenter 7y ago
  Convoluted? How? For all your talk of criminality and moral corruption, you seem to have no idea how to read a patent claim. You'd say it is all rather well known, but you cite to literally nothing.

senderista 7y ago

Universities patent IP all the time and some make a lot of money from it.

elmo2you 7y ago
Luckily there are still people who consider that a travesty of academia. The fact that it exists, doesn't make it right. Just as slave trade existed for a long time, both profitable and considered a reputable business, didn't make that right.

xwowsersx 7y ago

The haste with which you call for someone to be ousted from their field is frightening.

Nullabillity 7y ago
Your acceptance of people who abuse the patent system is frightening.
- xwowsersx 7y ago
  If I don't call for someone to be ousted from their field/career then it means I accept all of their behaviors? You do realize by that logic, you have condoned a neverending list of bad behavior by anyone who has done something wrong (which, newsflash, is pretty much every human being) where you haven't called for their ouster? You may want to rethink this.
  - Nullabillity 7y ago
    > If I don't call for someone to be ousted from their field/career then it means I accept all of their behaviors? There's a difference between not asking for something, and asking for something not to happen. Besides.. There are many cases where it's a he-said-she-said debate with no clear truth, or where the ethics aren't entirely clear to begin with. But sometimes you're just dealing with the identity killer[0]. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oL895peZpqY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oL895peZpqY
- ryanlol 7y ago
  Why exactly is this an abuse of the patent system?