4 ms·

Australia Is Committing Climate Suicide

bobosha 7y ago
Unfortunately, the US and multiple other countries aren't too far behind. Climate-change denial is our generation's ignominy for the future - however long that might be.
stuqqq 7y ago
California, Brazil and Australia. I have lost my hope. Next summer, there will be more. Nothing can reverse the damages made by humans. The only way seems to be reducing population to a sustainable level.
- trfuklefger 7y ago
  The "there will be more" part happened last summer, but thanks to media propaganda/manipulation/disinfo[0] you didn't noticed it, your attention was on Evil Bolsonaro and the Hong kong protests. [0] https://www.npr.org/2019/09/18/761591604/bolivia-is-fighting-major-forest-fires-nearly-as-large-as-brazils?t=1578141160887 https://www.npr.org/2019/09/18/761591604/bolivia-is-fighting...
t-h-e-chief 7y ago
Australia not committing suicide; we are already dead - that's why they call us the down-under; the grave of the world. Killed by our wanker leaders.
- trfuklefger 7y ago
  Speak for yourself, maybe you're dead, i'm not.
FranzFerdiNaN 7y ago
Australia knew the science and yet went ahead and kept electing conservatives who promised more coal, less taxes, less money for fire brigades and preventing fires, and to do nothing about climate change. They now experience the consequences of their choices. Hopefully next time they make better choices, like putting their current PM in jail for gross negligence and electing people who acknowledge the causes of this heartbreaking disaster and actually do something about it.
- Youden 7y ago
  I don't hold much hope. This is the same country that elected the Liberals (the current government) on a policy of "stop the boats" and "the opposite of what the other party wants". Murdoch's ownership of the media is extremely effective.
  - cam_l 7y ago
    Murdoch newspapers in question.. caught not actually covering the fires. https://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/jan/04/the-australian-murdoch-owned-newspaper-accused-of-downplaying-bushfires-in-favour-of-picnic-races https://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/jan/04/the-australian...
syshum 7y ago
Economic Suicide or Climate Suicide, those were the options. People can call is climate claim denial all the want, but that is mostly down to them not understanding economics, and the economic realities The climate issues can not be solved by banning things, taxing things, or regulating things. It can only be solved in the same way every other human problem has been solved. Innovation, we need to innovate our way out of the problem. Looking to government solutions to the issue will always result in disappointment and no solution
- NeedMoreTea 7y ago
  Radium, Heroin and other patent snake oil medicines were solved by innovation not regulation? How did we innovate around lead in petrol or pipes? Or the health consequences of smoking? Adulteration of food? CFCs? Seems like appropriate use of regulation, punitive taxation and banning has a long history of working well, despite your economic dogma.
  - syshum 7y ago
    You believe the Heron problem has been solved by government regulations? Or there are not Snake Oil product today sold with the complete approval of the government? And I am not sure what regulations your referring to around Radium... The others are more of the same, some of it is misappropriation to how much the government actually impacted things vs normal market pressures, the government has the habit of coming in after society has already starting phasing out a product or practice then "regulating" the last few companies that have not changed yet as the pressure of the market leaders, it is form or protectionism to put competition out of business. But continue to believe the government work for you, and not Large Multi National corporations. All evidence speaks to the contrary...
    - NeedMoreTea 7y ago
      It has been solved in the sense of no longer being an OTC non addictive medicine suitable for baby. The war on drugs is an entirely unconnected issue. No market pressures were affecting adulteration of food or tobacco until governments started acting. Post war the vast majority of adults smoked thanks to US marketing led campaigns to promote wider adoption, and their "torches of freedom" campaign to get adoption started among females. Nor was lead in any way declining, quite the contrary it was constantly increasing as car use spread. Asbestos was being used profligately until regulation came in. Thalidomide was outlawed in developed nations, yet those multi nationals quite happily sell it to the developing world, off script. There is no evidence for their being on the side of the public interest whatsoever, yet countless, endless examples of their working against, from disinformation campaigns on smoking, fire retardants, DDT, lead in fuel, Bhopal, enough to fill a book. Capitalism needs, absolutely needs constraining. If governments today do not work for us, as they did in the fifties, sixties and seventies, it is because they have been mainly captured by the cult of neoliberalism and small laissez-faire hands of governance, and the libertarian think tanks and lobbyists, such that even the "left" is right leaning...
projektfu 7y ago
Alternate link: https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/comment-australia-is-committing-climate-suicide/ar-BBYArAP#interstitial=1 https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/comment-australia-i...
csanivar 7y ago
Forgive my ignorance but can someone explain how these kinds of fires usually start and why couldn't they stop them when they were small and easy to put away?
- benmmurphy 7y ago
  I think the main sources are lightning strikes, accidental human ignition and deliberate arson. A lot of people have been arrested for deliberate arson recently (https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/nsw-firefronts-uncontrollable-as-state-braces-for-heatwave/news-story/4f006855e6b1598ba3a6d53c66391516 https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/nsw-firefronts-uncon...). I would guess a combination of winds and high fuel load means a small fire can become an uncontrollable roaring blaze very quickly. I guess also a lot of fires could be started in areas that are not easily accessible to fire fighters so it might not even be an option to stop them while they are small.
  - NeedMoreTea 7y ago
    ...and a fair few from the native Australian species, the Eucalyptus. Known to spontaneously combust and even spontaneously explode when spots of resin magnify sunlight. The leaves give off enough oils into the air that they can also spread a fire across a wide area through the tree tops. The plants and seeds are adapted to use fire as part of reproduction, and the seeds fire resistant. Just never normally on this scale.
pasttense01 7y ago
While Australia has the wrong climate plan, Australia only contributes 1% of the CO2 produced in the world. So even if Australia went carbon free, it would still have the same problems--carbon dioxide circulates throughout the world. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_gas_emissions_by_Australia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_gas_emissions_by_Au...
- orf 7y ago
  Does that contribution take into account their coal exports to other countries?
- ant6n 7y ago
  Does that take into account the torpedoing of international climate agreements.
- NeedMoreTea 7y ago
  Worlds largest coal exporter, at near 40% of the world's coal, puts Australia as the third highest global export source of CO2. Behind only Saudi and Russia (oil and gas respectively). https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2019-08-19/australia-co2-exports-third-highest-worldwide/11420654 https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2019-08-19/australia-co2...
  - ginko 7y ago
    I'm not sure it's fair to count a country's fossil fuel exports to its CO2 contributions. Arguably Australia could increase the price of coal by stopping its coal production but the effect would just be that mines elsewhere would reopen or increase production to meet demand.
    - NeedMoreTea 7y ago
      I'm not sure it's fair to give production and export a free pass in the accounting, as we do. If coal prices increase it strengthens the case everywhere, for switching to alternative fuels. More solar, wind, hydro schemes will start, and some will replace coal with gas -- which although fossil is, at least, a step in the right direction. Of course mines may reopen, but if the world is ever to be serious about solving the problem that should be restricted, regulated or taxed by the nation with the reopening mines.

Unfortunately, the US and multiple other countries aren't too far behind. Climate-change denial is our generation's ignominy for the future - however long that might be.

stuqqq 7y ago

California, Brazil and Australia. I have lost my hope. Next summer, there will be more. Nothing can reverse the damages made by humans. The only way seems to be reducing population to a sustainable level.

trfuklefger 7y ago
The "there will be more" part happened last summer, but thanks to media propaganda/manipulation/disinfo[0] you didn't noticed it, your attention was on Evil Bolsonaro and the Hong kong protests. [0] https://www.npr.org/2019/09/18/761591604/bolivia-is-fighting-major-forest-fires-nearly-as-large-as-brazils?t=1578141160887 https://www.npr.org/2019/09/18/761591604/bolivia-is-fighting...

t-h-e-chief 7y ago

Australia not committing suicide; we are already dead - that's why they call us the down-under; the grave of the world. Killed by our wanker leaders.

trfuklefger 7y ago
Speak for yourself, maybe you're dead, i'm not.

FranzFerdiNaN 7y ago

Australia knew the science and yet went ahead and kept electing conservatives who promised more coal, less taxes, less money for fire brigades and preventing fires, and to do nothing about climate change. They now experience the consequences of their choices. Hopefully next time they make better choices, like putting their current PM in jail for gross negligence and electing people who acknowledge the causes of this heartbreaking disaster and actually do something about it.

Youden 7y ago
I don't hold much hope. This is the same country that elected the Liberals (the current government) on a policy of "stop the boats" and "the opposite of what the other party wants". Murdoch's ownership of the media is extremely effective.
- cam_l 7y ago
  Murdoch newspapers in question.. caught not actually covering the fires. https://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/jan/04/the-australian-murdoch-owned-newspaper-accused-of-downplaying-bushfires-in-favour-of-picnic-races https://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/jan/04/the-australian...

syshum 7y ago

Economic Suicide or Climate Suicide, those were the options. People can call is climate claim denial all the want, but that is mostly down to them not understanding economics, and the economic realities The climate issues can not be solved by banning things, taxing things, or regulating things. It can only be solved in the same way every other human problem has been solved. Innovation, we need to innovate our way out of the problem. Looking to government solutions to the issue will always result in disappointment and no solution

NeedMoreTea 7y ago
Radium, Heroin and other patent snake oil medicines were solved by innovation not regulation? How did we innovate around lead in petrol or pipes? Or the health consequences of smoking? Adulteration of food? CFCs? Seems like appropriate use of regulation, punitive taxation and banning has a long history of working well, despite your economic dogma.
- syshum 7y ago
  You believe the Heron problem has been solved by government regulations? Or there are not Snake Oil product today sold with the complete approval of the government? And I am not sure what regulations your referring to around Radium... The others are more of the same, some of it is misappropriation to how much the government actually impacted things vs normal market pressures, the government has the habit of coming in after society has already starting phasing out a product or practice then "regulating" the last few companies that have not changed yet as the pressure of the market leaders, it is form or protectionism to put competition out of business. But continue to believe the government work for you, and not Large Multi National corporations. All evidence speaks to the contrary...
  - NeedMoreTea 7y ago
    It has been solved in the sense of no longer being an OTC non addictive medicine suitable for baby. The war on drugs is an entirely unconnected issue. No market pressures were affecting adulteration of food or tobacco until governments started acting. Post war the vast majority of adults smoked thanks to US marketing led campaigns to promote wider adoption, and their "torches of freedom" campaign to get adoption started among females. Nor was lead in any way declining, quite the contrary it was constantly increasing as car use spread. Asbestos was being used profligately until regulation came in. Thalidomide was outlawed in developed nations, yet those multi nationals quite happily sell it to the developing world, off script. There is no evidence for their being on the side of the public interest whatsoever, yet countless, endless examples of their working against, from disinformation campaigns on smoking, fire retardants, DDT, lead in fuel, Bhopal, enough to fill a book. Capitalism needs, absolutely needs constraining. If governments today do not work for us, as they did in the fifties, sixties and seventies, it is because they have been mainly captured by the cult of neoliberalism and small laissez-faire hands of governance, and the libertarian think tanks and lobbyists, such that even the "left" is right leaning...

projektfu 7y ago

Alternate link: https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/comment-australia-is-committing-climate-suicide/ar-BBYArAP#interstitial=1 https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/comment-australia-i...

csanivar 7y ago

Forgive my ignorance but can someone explain how these kinds of fires usually start and why couldn't they stop them when they were small and easy to put away?

benmmurphy 7y ago
I think the main sources are lightning strikes, accidental human ignition and deliberate arson. A lot of people have been arrested for deliberate arson recently (https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/nsw-firefronts-uncontrollable-as-state-braces-for-heatwave/news-story/4f006855e6b1598ba3a6d53c66391516 https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/nsw-firefronts-uncon...). I would guess a combination of winds and high fuel load means a small fire can become an uncontrollable roaring blaze very quickly. I guess also a lot of fires could be started in areas that are not easily accessible to fire fighters so it might not even be an option to stop them while they are small.
- NeedMoreTea 7y ago
  ...and a fair few from the native Australian species, the Eucalyptus. Known to spontaneously combust and even spontaneously explode when spots of resin magnify sunlight. The leaves give off enough oils into the air that they can also spread a fire across a wide area through the tree tops. The plants and seeds are adapted to use fire as part of reproduction, and the seeds fire resistant. Just never normally on this scale.

pasttense01 7y ago

While Australia has the wrong climate plan, Australia only contributes 1% of the CO2 produced in the world. So even if Australia went carbon free, it would still have the same problems--carbon dioxide circulates throughout the world. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_gas_emissions_by_Australia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_gas_emissions_by_Au...

orf 7y ago
Does that contribution take into account their coal exports to other countries?
ant6n 7y ago
Does that take into account the torpedoing of international climate agreements.
NeedMoreTea 7y ago
Worlds largest coal exporter, at near 40% of the world's coal, puts Australia as the third highest global export source of CO2. Behind only Saudi and Russia (oil and gas respectively). https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2019-08-19/australia-co2-exports-third-highest-worldwide/11420654 https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2019-08-19/australia-co2...
- ginko 7y ago
  I'm not sure it's fair to count a country's fossil fuel exports to its CO2 contributions. Arguably Australia could increase the price of coal by stopping its coal production but the effect would just be that mines elsewhere would reopen or increase production to meet demand.
  - NeedMoreTea 7y ago
    I'm not sure it's fair to give production and export a free pass in the accounting, as we do. If coal prices increase it strengthens the case everywhere, for switching to alternative fuels. More solar, wind, hydro schemes will start, and some will replace coal with gas -- which although fossil is, at least, a step in the right direction. Of course mines may reopen, but if the world is ever to be serious about solving the problem that should be restricted, regulated or taxed by the nation with the reopening mines.