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This argument forgets that where people spend most of their money, housing, education, healthcare, costs are rapidly raising in real terms and have not followed

This argument forgets that where people spend most of their money, housing, education, healthcare, costs are rapidly raising in real terms and have not followed Moore's law in usefulness. Yes technology has made cool gadgets for consumption, but that isn't what wealth is about. From Wikipedia: "Wealth is the abundance of valuable financial assets or physical possessions which can be converted into a form that can be used for transactions." The average worker hasn't seen a real pay ride in 40 years, and their ability to build wealth through savings has been greatly diminished.

malandrew 7y ago
Incorrect about workers not earning more. The problem is that household sizes are shrinking. https://www.minneapolisfed.org/article/2008/where-has-all-the-income-gone https://www.minneapolisfed.org/article/2008/where-has-all-th...
makomk 7y ago
So basically, improvements in productivity are only benefitting people in areas where productivity has improved? That seems more like a tautology to me than something which can be fixed by gnashing teeth about the distribution of wealth
- xg15 7y ago
  How did you get from > The average worker hasn't seen a real pay [rise] in 40 years to > So basically, improvements in productivity are only benefitting people in areas where productivity has improved? ? Worker productivity has increased enormously in the last decades.
  - makomk 7y ago
    I didn't? Obviously, I got that from the "housing, education, healthcare, costs are rapidly raising in real terms and have not followed Moore's law in usefulness" part...
- bsanr2 7y ago
  Improvements in productivity are only benefitting people who own a critical mass of capital and can therefore dictate where the return on productivity gains go.
WillPostForFood 7y ago
There is no data that supports the assertion that the average worker hasn't seen a pay increase in 40 years. Increases may not have been as great, but there have been increases. Whether you look at Fed numbers, CBO numbers, or Census numbers, all show an increase in real income. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United... Between 1979 and 2011, gross median household income, adjusted for inflation, rose from $59,400 to $75,200, or 26.5%. This compares with the Census' growth of 10%.[19] However, once adjusted for household size and looking at taxes from an after-tax perspective, real median household income grew 46%, representing significant growth.[20] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States#/media/File:US_GDP_per_capita_vs_median_household_income.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United...
- hacknat 7y ago
  CPI isn’t being measure properly. What if all of these numbers that you cite have been games by a bureaucracy desperate not to advertise its failures? Everytime I dig into a government stat I end up finding out how badly it misses the mark. This whole article is about how we trust our own data too much, and your argument is, “But that’s not what the data says”. Instead of looking at nominal income (which was a smaller part of peoples’ wages decades ago), look at real wage growth (https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us...). If we take in all the benefit cuts, the fact that college has become a necessity, pensions are dead, and healthcare inflation is insane, real housing inflation has been substantial, then you can begin to understand the situation. Income is only part of the equation. Yes, income has gone up, but we traded it for the mother of all benefit cuts.
  - 0xfaded 7y ago
    It's actually simpler than that, median household income != median wage. Here's the chart the parent wants. Simple explanation is that there are more dual income households. https://aneconomicsense.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/going-from-gdp-per-capita-to-median-wage-1947-to-2013142.png https://aneconomicsense.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/going-fr...

malandrew 7y ago

Incorrect about workers not earning more. The problem is that household sizes are shrinking. https://www.minneapolisfed.org/article/2008/where-has-all-the-income-gone https://www.minneapolisfed.org/article/2008/where-has-all-th...

makomk 7y ago

So basically, improvements in productivity are only benefitting people in areas where productivity has improved? That seems more like a tautology to me than something which can be fixed by gnashing teeth about the distribution of wealth

xg15 7y ago
How did you get from > The average worker hasn't seen a real pay [rise] in 40 years to > So basically, improvements in productivity are only benefitting people in areas where productivity has improved? ? Worker productivity has increased enormously in the last decades.
- makomk 7y ago
  I didn't? Obviously, I got that from the "housing, education, healthcare, costs are rapidly raising in real terms and have not followed Moore's law in usefulness" part...
bsanr2 7y ago
Improvements in productivity are only benefitting people who own a critical mass of capital and can therefore dictate where the return on productivity gains go.

WillPostForFood 7y ago

There is no data that supports the assertion that the average worker hasn't seen a pay increase in 40 years. Increases may not have been as great, but there have been increases. Whether you look at Fed numbers, CBO numbers, or Census numbers, all show an increase in real income. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United... Between 1979 and 2011, gross median household income, adjusted for inflation, rose from $59,400 to $75,200, or 26.5%. This compares with the Census' growth of 10%.[19] However, once adjusted for household size and looking at taxes from an after-tax perspective, real median household income grew 46%, representing significant growth.[20] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States#/media/File:US_GDP_per_capita_vs_median_household_income.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United...

hacknat 7y ago
CPI isn’t being measure properly. What if all of these numbers that you cite have been games by a bureaucracy desperate not to advertise its failures? Everytime I dig into a government stat I end up finding out how badly it misses the mark. This whole article is about how we trust our own data too much, and your argument is, “But that’s not what the data says”. Instead of looking at nominal income (which was a smaller part of peoples’ wages decades ago), look at real wage growth (https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us...). If we take in all the benefit cuts, the fact that college has become a necessity, pensions are dead, and healthcare inflation is insane, real housing inflation has been substantial, then you can begin to understand the situation. Income is only part of the equation. Yes, income has gone up, but we traded it for the mother of all benefit cuts.
- 0xfaded 7y ago
  It's actually simpler than that, median household income != median wage. Here's the chart the parent wants. Simple explanation is that there are more dual income households. https://aneconomicsense.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/going-from-gdp-per-capita-to-median-wage-1947-to-2013142.png https://aneconomicsense.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/going-fr...