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This does indeed come off as disrespectful. These videos weren’t “leaked”, they weren’t found on someone’s old phone. The people who shot the video LIED to th

This does indeed come off as disrespectful. These videos weren’t “leaked”, they weren’t found on someone’s old phone. The people who shot the video LIED to the participants in order to coerce participation. They paid other people to lie to them as well in order to create a more complete deception. Then they posted the videos in exactly the way they said they would not do. They also provided drugs and alcohol to the participants before offering paperwork. This is fraud, pure and simple, thus the monetary reward. And your comment here comes across as patronizing at best. You read an article about criminal behavior and then blamed the victims of the crimes. “Have fun”? These are desperate people desperately trying to negotiate a contract so they can survive. This is not some kids having sexy time.

ColanR 7y ago
Your comment, however, implies a naivete that we should trust others - to do only what they say they will, with things that are precious to us. The people shooting the video are frauds, but allowing the video to be shot at all was naive at best and stupid at worst.
- progval 7y ago
  > implies a naivete that we should trust others - to do only what they say they will, with things that are precious to us. We trust strangers all the time. For example when driving, because we expect dangerous people to be sufficiently de-incentived from driving. Or when doing groceries, because we expect companies not to poison us. Or when riding in a stranger's car, even though they could rob and/or harm.
  - celticmusic 7y ago
    terrible examples, in all instances we have laws in place and people who's jobs it is to ensure the safety. Your point has some legitimacy, but your examples are severely flawed.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - progval 7y ago
      > in all instances we have laws in place and people who's jobs it is to ensure the safety Yes, and that was exactly my point. We (can) have laws and enforcement for the issue this article is about too.
  - ColanR 7y ago
    > when driving We actually exhibit a low level of trust, given the extreme safety measures we build into our cars and the segregation of our highway corridors. 'Trusting strangers' would look like cars without airbags, and the removal of speed limits in residential areas. We do not trust food companies not to poison us. We require an accounting of every ingredient that goes into every piece of food we eat, and companies are held accountable to that list. If you think we trust food companies, read about the reaction to Upton Sinclair's book The Jungle. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jungle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jungle) > Or when riding in a stranger's car, even though they could rob and/or harm. Isn't that the running joke? That harm does happen, and somehow we still roll the dice and use those services. I'm just surprised that we trust pharma companies as much as we do.
missosoup 7y ago
It's not disrespectful, it's a fact of life. Any photo, any video that is shared/stored on a device you don't own, will almost certainly end up eventually being shared outside the originally intended circles. It doesn't even matter if the person or company you're dealing with fully intends to keep their word. The nature of all data is it leaks over time.
gomoboo 7y ago
Why the anger? The GP was not blaming the victim but giving a warning. Whether it be through scumbag criminals or a lost device, content recorded and uploaded digitally can often never be deleted. They were sick individuals that exploited these women. Individuals like that will never go away so we need to be vigilant through enforcement of laws and education of the public.
plemer 7y ago
You make many good points, but aren’t being charitable to OP. No one has disputed this was fraud, and a vile one besides. And if OP intended to suggest equivalence between i) careless but informedly consenting teens having fun and ii) victims of fraud, that would be incorrect. Telling people to be careful, however, is not blaming the victim. I don’t have kids, but this is advice I expect to give them.
celticmusic 7y ago
They have videos of these woman stating they weren't under the influence of anything and explicitly giving permission for the videos to be used in any way. I bet you there are plenty of women who walked away because they recognized the lie, either when asked to do that specific video or sooner. What the poster above you was attempting to do is possibly educate others about not being naive. That has real value that your virtue signaling doesn't. And you're going to try and tell me that they were given drugs and alcohol before doing the paperwork. And I'm going to respond that I would never do that, and I bet you plenty of women recognized the problem and walked away at that point too. The fact that these women didn't have any of their defenses up means they were naive, and that naivete got them taken advantage of. Pointing out that people need to be less naive is not victim blaming anymore than an officer telling you to keep your doors locked after you got robbed is victim blaming.
- missosoup 7y ago
  America has this weird thing where pointing out that the victim wasn't completely robbed of their agency and made some dumb decisions == victim blaming. Especially in incidents related to sex. To recap, someone commented that there's a lesson to be re-iterated here about sharing videos, and someone else got offended by that. It's weird to imagine a society where people get offended when presented with instructions for how not to fall victim to the same situation in the future. The victims aren't being blamed. The legal system worked as intended. But if you don't want porno videos of you showing up on the internet, don't share any. No amount of laws or enforcement will make those videos go away now. Even middle schoolers are taught this in sex-ed.
  - ck425 7y ago
    You have to look at that in historical terms. Until very recently the vast majority of sexual exploitation cases where dismissed using a form of victim blaming, normally by pointing out the agency the victims still had but didn't use. I'm not saying you're wrong but people are understandably hyper sensitive to those points as until very recently they would be used to dismiss victims. It'll take a period of time (atleast a decade, likely a generation) where victims are regularly listened to before that sensitivity starts to go away.
mysterydip 7y ago
My comments were not about the people in this story directly. I am certainly not blaming them for what happened. My point is, if you don't control the source of the recording (whatever it may be), you can't control what happens to it. With how easy it is to share any data these days, it could go places you don't want it to very quickly. "Have fun" was a general comment for people. Look at all the political fallout that has happened to various people over pictures from decades ago that have resurfaced, for one example. Here's another (older) example of what I mean: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_Kid https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_Kid
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- wilsonfiifi 7y ago
  Honestly, I don’t think you need to defend your comment any further to appease anyone who would be potentially offended by reading it. “Do not knowingly film your sexual encounter(s)” period. It’s a general cautionary statement and should be treated as such.
- bbg215 7y ago
  Exactly. Even if what they told the girls was 100% true -- the videos would be on DVDs only distributed in Australia and New Zealand, there is little reason to think those scenes on a DVD wouldn't end up online on a streaming porn site. The most disturbing part of this is the doxing of the girls after the fact and that they shorted them on payment after doing their scenes. Changing the terms of the shoot once they arrived actually has happened a lot in porn over the years. There is no free lunch in life -- you don't make $3000-$5000 for filming something that will never see the light of day. It sucks that the girls fell for their con, but there was an extreme amount of naivety on their part that allowed them to be conned in the first place.
narnianal 7y ago
The best way to avoid fraud is to become smarter oneself. It is not that hard to detect once you learned some survival skills. Sorry, but criticising someone as disrespectful for helping people to learn survival skills sounds damaging. A little like not telling your children about sex and condoms because you don't want them to have sex. Shit will happen. Better be prepared, and better help others prepare. Stop criticizing people who try to help. PS: He also didn't say that it isn't fraud. He said that besides fraud there are a lot of other ways a video you made could be used in other ways than you intended.
JordanFarmer 7y ago
College aged women trusted porn producers? Wow, talk about lack of street smarts. Among people working different professions, how highly would you trust a porn company? These women made pornos. They had sex with a total stranger while a crew stood around and watched while filming them them, I mean just think about that. They actually thought, "oh well, only one person will ever see it"? This whole thing is a sad story, but wow, i just can't imagine American born and raised girls going along with this...
- UncleMeat 7y ago
  Horseshit. I’d assume that any business, porn or not, is not fraudulently deceiving me about the nature of my transaction.
apta 7y ago
> They also provided drugs and alcohol to the participants before offering paperwork. Maybe the participants shouldn't be taking the drugs and alcohol to begin with?

ColanR 7y ago

Your comment, however, implies a naivete that we should trust others - to do only what they say they will, with things that are precious to us. The people shooting the video are frauds, but allowing the video to be shot at all was naive at best and stupid at worst.

progval 7y ago
> implies a naivete that we should trust others - to do only what they say they will, with things that are precious to us. We trust strangers all the time. For example when driving, because we expect dangerous people to be sufficiently de-incentived from driving. Or when doing groceries, because we expect companies not to poison us. Or when riding in a stranger's car, even though they could rob and/or harm.
- celticmusic 7y ago
  terrible examples, in all instances we have laws in place and people who's jobs it is to ensure the safety. Your point has some legitimacy, but your examples are severely flawed.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - progval 7y ago
    > in all instances we have laws in place and people who's jobs it is to ensure the safety Yes, and that was exactly my point. We (can) have laws and enforcement for the issue this article is about too.
- ColanR 7y ago
  > when driving We actually exhibit a low level of trust, given the extreme safety measures we build into our cars and the segregation of our highway corridors. 'Trusting strangers' would look like cars without airbags, and the removal of speed limits in residential areas. We do not trust food companies not to poison us. We require an accounting of every ingredient that goes into every piece of food we eat, and companies are held accountable to that list. If you think we trust food companies, read about the reaction to Upton Sinclair's book The Jungle. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jungle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jungle) > Or when riding in a stranger's car, even though they could rob and/or harm. Isn't that the running joke? That harm does happen, and somehow we still roll the dice and use those services. I'm just surprised that we trust pharma companies as much as we do.

missosoup 7y ago

It's not disrespectful, it's a fact of life. Any photo, any video that is shared/stored on a device you don't own, will almost certainly end up eventually being shared outside the originally intended circles. It doesn't even matter if the person or company you're dealing with fully intends to keep their word. The nature of all data is it leaks over time.

gomoboo 7y ago

Why the anger? The GP was not blaming the victim but giving a warning. Whether it be through scumbag criminals or a lost device, content recorded and uploaded digitally can often never be deleted. They were sick individuals that exploited these women. Individuals like that will never go away so we need to be vigilant through enforcement of laws and education of the public.

plemer 7y ago

You make many good points, but aren’t being charitable to OP. No one has disputed this was fraud, and a vile one besides. And if OP intended to suggest equivalence between i) careless but informedly consenting teens having fun and ii) victims of fraud, that would be incorrect. Telling people to be careful, however, is not blaming the victim. I don’t have kids, but this is advice I expect to give them.

celticmusic 7y ago

They have videos of these woman stating they weren't under the influence of anything and explicitly giving permission for the videos to be used in any way. I bet you there are plenty of women who walked away because they recognized the lie, either when asked to do that specific video or sooner. What the poster above you was attempting to do is possibly educate others about not being naive. That has real value that your virtue signaling doesn't. And you're going to try and tell me that they were given drugs and alcohol before doing the paperwork. And I'm going to respond that I would never do that, and I bet you plenty of women recognized the problem and walked away at that point too. The fact that these women didn't have any of their defenses up means they were naive, and that naivete got them taken advantage of. Pointing out that people need to be less naive is not victim blaming anymore than an officer telling you to keep your doors locked after you got robbed is victim blaming.

missosoup 7y ago
America has this weird thing where pointing out that the victim wasn't completely robbed of their agency and made some dumb decisions == victim blaming. Especially in incidents related to sex. To recap, someone commented that there's a lesson to be re-iterated here about sharing videos, and someone else got offended by that. It's weird to imagine a society where people get offended when presented with instructions for how not to fall victim to the same situation in the future. The victims aren't being blamed. The legal system worked as intended. But if you don't want porno videos of you showing up on the internet, don't share any. No amount of laws or enforcement will make those videos go away now. Even middle schoolers are taught this in sex-ed.
- ck425 7y ago
  You have to look at that in historical terms. Until very recently the vast majority of sexual exploitation cases where dismissed using a form of victim blaming, normally by pointing out the agency the victims still had but didn't use. I'm not saying you're wrong but people are understandably hyper sensitive to those points as until very recently they would be used to dismiss victims. It'll take a period of time (atleast a decade, likely a generation) where victims are regularly listened to before that sensitivity starts to go away.

mysterydip 7y ago

My comments were not about the people in this story directly. I am certainly not blaming them for what happened. My point is, if you don't control the source of the recording (whatever it may be), you can't control what happens to it. With how easy it is to share any data these days, it could go places you don't want it to very quickly. "Have fun" was a general comment for people. Look at all the political fallout that has happened to various people over pictures from decades ago that have resurfaced, for one example. Here's another (older) example of what I mean: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_Kid https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_Kid

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
wilsonfiifi 7y ago
Honestly, I don’t think you need to defend your comment any further to appease anyone who would be potentially offended by reading it. “Do not knowingly film your sexual encounter(s)” period. It’s a general cautionary statement and should be treated as such.
bbg215 7y ago
Exactly. Even if what they told the girls was 100% true -- the videos would be on DVDs only distributed in Australia and New Zealand, there is little reason to think those scenes on a DVD wouldn't end up online on a streaming porn site. The most disturbing part of this is the doxing of the girls after the fact and that they shorted them on payment after doing their scenes. Changing the terms of the shoot once they arrived actually has happened a lot in porn over the years. There is no free lunch in life -- you don't make $3000-$5000 for filming something that will never see the light of day. It sucks that the girls fell for their con, but there was an extreme amount of naivety on their part that allowed them to be conned in the first place.

narnianal 7y ago

The best way to avoid fraud is to become smarter oneself. It is not that hard to detect once you learned some survival skills. Sorry, but criticising someone as disrespectful for helping people to learn survival skills sounds damaging. A little like not telling your children about sex and condoms because you don't want them to have sex. Shit will happen. Better be prepared, and better help others prepare. Stop criticizing people who try to help. PS: He also didn't say that it isn't fraud. He said that besides fraud there are a lot of other ways a video you made could be used in other ways than you intended.

JordanFarmer 7y ago

College aged women trusted porn producers? Wow, talk about lack of street smarts. Among people working different professions, how highly would you trust a porn company? These women made pornos. They had sex with a total stranger while a crew stood around and watched while filming them them, I mean just think about that. They actually thought, "oh well, only one person will ever see it"? This whole thing is a sad story, but wow, i just can't imagine American born and raised girls going along with this...

UncleMeat 7y ago
Horseshit. I’d assume that any business, porn or not, is not fraudulently deceiving me about the nature of my transaction.

apta 7y ago

> They also provided drugs and alcohol to the participants before offering paperwork. Maybe the participants shouldn't be taking the drugs and alcohol to begin with?