8 ms·

Anecdote: My dad did this in the 70s. I believe you’re correct. He was working overseas and was frequently dispatched to countries without modern repair facilit

by t34543 7y ago

Anecdote: My dad did this in the 70s. I believe you’re correct. He was working overseas and was frequently dispatched to countries without modern repair facilities such as Saudi Arabia. One story that stands out is he asked a local worker to warm up the APU. The worker proceeded to build a fire under the APU, destroying it. What he meant was start it up and let it run until it reaches operating temperature.

jcims 7y ago
APUBBQ
dehrmann 7y ago
I might get some of the backstory halfway off, but my grandfather was in Alaska during WWII for the construction of the Alaska Highway. They tried to never turn off truck and equipment engines because if you did, you had to build a fire under them to get them warm enough to start again.
- acomjean 7y ago
  Cars in northern Canada sometime have block heaters installed for cold starting. How cold should it be before you use it? Ask the internet: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/amp/globe-drive/culture/commuting/what-is-the-benefit-of-plugging-in-my-car-to-a-block-heater-and-when-should-i-do-it/article27446878/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/amp/globe-drive/culture/comm...
  - fnbr 7y ago
    In my experience, it's all cars in Canada- I've never seen one that doesn't have it (other than imports). I guess you could probably get away without it on the west coast. Most cars do start though. It’s really a maintenance issue, where it’s bad for your car to start it at -30 (as the linked article says). In my experience, a newer car in decent shape will start consistently.
    - jacquesm 7y ago
      You'd have a very hard time starting a diesel without a block heater. When I lived in Canada I kept an older Ford (a 1949 one!) around for winter use because the diesel tractor was that much harder to start. You can make things a bit better by mixing about 5% gasoline in with the diesel to avoid the diesel becoming flaky but that has limits too and the Canadian winters can throw -40 Celsius at you with some regularity. Block heaters are a must in that environment.
      - matt_the_bass 7y ago
        Fun fact: -40C == -40F
    - freeone3000 7y ago
      I live in the habitable zone near the US and while I've heard of one, I've never seen one.
    - inferiorhuman 7y ago
      Yeah my E39 doesn't have any sort of heater and it came from BC. I've not seen anywhere to plug a block heater in though BMW did sell auxiliary coolant heaters (from Webasto). Of course if I lived in a climate where block heaters were required a BMW wouldn't be my first choice. The heated seats and steering wheel come in handy more than I thought they would tho.
    - lb1lf 7y ago
      -Block heaters are quite common in Norway, too - and while my old diesel will start in -30C without one, it does not like it. (I cheat, though - the starter motor is pilfered from a light truck, and two batteries with approx. 800 CCA each work in parallel to make it turn over; it was a necessity as there is no electricity where we park the car before heading for our cabin in the mountains...) In addition to less engine wear, it also works wonders for fuel consumption and makes the car comfortably warm in a couple of minutes.
  - greglindahl 7y ago
    Engine block heaters are a part of optional or standard cold weather kits in cars sold all over the colder places in the world. Electric cars have the standard advice to leave them plugged in overnight in cold areas.
  - Waterluvian 7y ago
    Standard in every car I've owned in Canada. Never needed it.
    - tonyarkles 7y ago
      Based on your name, I suggest coming west, but not too far west :). Trying to start a car at -40 in SK is rough... if you've got a good battery and thin oil you might be able to, but it's so much nicer after the block heater's been going for a few hours.
    - refurb 7y ago
      Cold weather starting is MUCH better on cars than it was 30 years ago. Fuel injection made a big difference. I had to use a block heater (and battery heater) a number of times. But once I moved to a late 80’s car, I almost never had to use the block heater.
  - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
    Gasoline powered cars in good repair will start just fine any any temperature the North American continent can provide. Block heaters are to speed warmup and reduce wear.
- jandrese 7y ago
  Old farm tractors used what was called "farm oil" in the old days. Basically the cheapest form of fuel you could buy since it was effectively a byproduct of the refining process. It was closer to paraffin wax than diesel, solid at room temperature. In order to start the tractor there was a second tank with diesel that was used until the engine warmed up enough to melt the primary fuel. If your tractor stalled out and you couldn't get it started again quickly the fuel would solidify in the lines and you would have to light a fire under the tractor to get it started.
  - WalterBright 7y ago
    The Germans in Russia in WW2 would use fires to warm their tanks and airplanes to get them to start.
    - jacquesm 7y ago
      They still do this in some places in Russia.
      - WalterBright 7y ago
        I might add that lighting a fire under a gas engine that likely has leaks and drips is a pretty ballsy thing to do.
        jacquesm 7y ago
        Usually done for big rigs, diesels not gas engines.
        WalterBright 7y ago
        Airplane engines are gas!
        jacquesm 7y ago
        I didn't have airplane engines in mind when I wrote that (tanks = vehicles) but given the thread context and your airplanes reference I see how that could happen, same thing with 'block heaters' elsewhere in the thread, I take it that is in the context of other vehicles (heavy equipment, tractor-trailers, buses and so on). And yes, some airplane engines use gas but the majority of them runs something that in constituency is closer to regular diesel than to gas. Kersone is #1 diesel! AV gas is another matter entirely but I'm not aware of any jet that would use it, though that might be a fun thing, and given that turbines can run on almost anything combustible it will probably work to some extent but I don't think it will be a happy ending unless the engine is really designed for it. Btw, this is an interesting start-up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESdHyNtHpqs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESdHyNtHpqs not cold weather but I'd hate to fly that in any conditions.
- newnewpdro 7y ago
  Sounds right, they describe this method in Alaska Crude, an interesting old book photo-documenting the development of Prudhoe Bay Oil Field. The engine and gear oil would freeze solid. Required fires under differentials, oil pans, etc. just to get the oil liquid again.
- WalterBright 7y ago
  My family was stationed near London for a time. My father told me later that once an airline pilot mistook a WW2 strip for the Heathrow runway (!) and landed there, using every inch of it to get it to stop. The strip was too short to take off from, so what to do? They stripped everything off the airplane they could. Seats, interiors, galleys, everything. They put in just enough fuel to hop over the trees to Heathrow. He said they did it, but barely.
  - fhars 7y ago
    Spantax used to do that in Hamburg, scroll down to „Incidents“ on https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamburg_Finkenwerder_Airport https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamburg_Finkenwerder_Airport The interesting thing is that „the end of the runway“ is actually a major river. And a Vuelling flight almost made the same mistake two years ago (but today it would be less critical as they have extended the runway to accommodate A380s some time ago).
  - netsharc 7y ago
    I'm trying to google a similar "we landed here but now it's too short for us to takeoff again" story which IIRC happened in California, but I can only find this incident that happened with a cargo plane in Kansas: https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/11/gigantic-plane-stuck-kansas-because-it-landed-tiny-airport/355374/ https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/11/giganti...
    - therockspush 7y ago
      This has happened more than a few times in Wichita. They are usually aiming for KICT but hit other airports. We had to file a flight plan out of Jabara for a private jet that was actually trying to land at KICT for maintenance. Didnt make the news but we did have to plan for the minimum amount of fuel.
  - jsjohnst 7y ago
    Sorta similar situation happened a few years back in Wichita Kansas. A 747 Dreamlifter (what Boeing uses to fly 787 fuselages) landed at Jabara airport (corporate jet airport) instead of the Air Force base 9 miles south of it. The videos online don’t give it justice, but from folks I know there, it was a frightful takeoff.
- lb1lf 7y ago
  I once owned a Lada Niva, which while it was overall a rather - to put it charitably - interesting car to own, it excelled during wintertime. The engine sump was incredibly heavy; when inquiring as to why, I was told the idea was that you could light a (small!) fire under it to make it easier to get the engine cranking in severe cold. That's Soviet engineering for you!

by t34543 7y ago

jcims 7y ago

APUBBQ

dehrmann 7y ago

I might get some of the backstory halfway off, but my grandfather was in Alaska during WWII for the construction of the Alaska Highway. They tried to never turn off truck and equipment engines because if you did, you had to build a fire under them to get them warm enough to start again.

acomjean 7y ago
Cars in northern Canada sometime have block heaters installed for cold starting. How cold should it be before you use it? Ask the internet: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/amp/globe-drive/culture/commuting/what-is-the-benefit-of-plugging-in-my-car-to-a-block-heater-and-when-should-i-do-it/article27446878/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/amp/globe-drive/culture/comm...
- fnbr 7y ago
  In my experience, it's all cars in Canada- I've never seen one that doesn't have it (other than imports). I guess you could probably get away without it on the west coast. Most cars do start though. It’s really a maintenance issue, where it’s bad for your car to start it at -30 (as the linked article says). In my experience, a newer car in decent shape will start consistently.
  - jacquesm 7y ago
    You'd have a very hard time starting a diesel without a block heater. When I lived in Canada I kept an older Ford (a 1949 one!) around for winter use because the diesel tractor was that much harder to start. You can make things a bit better by mixing about 5% gasoline in with the diesel to avoid the diesel becoming flaky but that has limits too and the Canadian winters can throw -40 Celsius at you with some regularity. Block heaters are a must in that environment.
    - matt_the_bass 7y ago
      Fun fact: -40C == -40F
  - freeone3000 7y ago
    I live in the habitable zone near the US and while I've heard of one, I've never seen one.
  - inferiorhuman 7y ago
    Yeah my E39 doesn't have any sort of heater and it came from BC. I've not seen anywhere to plug a block heater in though BMW did sell auxiliary coolant heaters (from Webasto). Of course if I lived in a climate where block heaters were required a BMW wouldn't be my first choice. The heated seats and steering wheel come in handy more than I thought they would tho.
  - lb1lf 7y ago
    -Block heaters are quite common in Norway, too - and while my old diesel will start in -30C without one, it does not like it. (I cheat, though - the starter motor is pilfered from a light truck, and two batteries with approx. 800 CCA each work in parallel to make it turn over; it was a necessity as there is no electricity where we park the car before heading for our cabin in the mountains...) In addition to less engine wear, it also works wonders for fuel consumption and makes the car comfortably warm in a couple of minutes.
- greglindahl 7y ago
  Engine block heaters are a part of optional or standard cold weather kits in cars sold all over the colder places in the world. Electric cars have the standard advice to leave them plugged in overnight in cold areas.
- Waterluvian 7y ago
  Standard in every car I've owned in Canada. Never needed it.
  - tonyarkles 7y ago
    Based on your name, I suggest coming west, but not too far west :). Trying to start a car at -40 in SK is rough... if you've got a good battery and thin oil you might be able to, but it's so much nicer after the block heater's been going for a few hours.
  - refurb 7y ago
    Cold weather starting is MUCH better on cars than it was 30 years ago. Fuel injection made a big difference. I had to use a block heater (and battery heater) a number of times. But once I moved to a late 80’s car, I almost never had to use the block heater.
- dsfyu404ed 7y ago
  Gasoline powered cars in good repair will start just fine any any temperature the North American continent can provide. Block heaters are to speed warmup and reduce wear.
jandrese 7y ago
Old farm tractors used what was called "farm oil" in the old days. Basically the cheapest form of fuel you could buy since it was effectively a byproduct of the refining process. It was closer to paraffin wax than diesel, solid at room temperature. In order to start the tractor there was a second tank with diesel that was used until the engine warmed up enough to melt the primary fuel. If your tractor stalled out and you couldn't get it started again quickly the fuel would solidify in the lines and you would have to light a fire under the tractor to get it started.
- WalterBright 7y ago
  The Germans in Russia in WW2 would use fires to warm their tanks and airplanes to get them to start.
  - jacquesm 7y ago
    They still do this in some places in Russia.
    - WalterBright 7y ago
      I might add that lighting a fire under a gas engine that likely has leaks and drips is a pretty ballsy thing to do.
      - jacquesm 7y ago
        Usually done for big rigs, diesels not gas engines.
        WalterBright 7y ago
        Airplane engines are gas!
        jacquesm 7y ago
        I didn't have airplane engines in mind when I wrote that (tanks = vehicles) but given the thread context and your airplanes reference I see how that could happen, same thing with 'block heaters' elsewhere in the thread, I take it that is in the context of other vehicles (heavy equipment, tractor-trailers, buses and so on). And yes, some airplane engines use gas but the majority of them runs something that in constituency is closer to regular diesel than to gas. Kersone is #1 diesel! AV gas is another matter entirely but I'm not aware of any jet that would use it, though that might be a fun thing, and given that turbines can run on almost anything combustible it will probably work to some extent but I don't think it will be a happy ending unless the engine is really designed for it. Btw, this is an interesting start-up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESdHyNtHpqs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESdHyNtHpqs not cold weather but I'd hate to fly that in any conditions.
newnewpdro 7y ago
Sounds right, they describe this method in Alaska Crude, an interesting old book photo-documenting the development of Prudhoe Bay Oil Field. The engine and gear oil would freeze solid. Required fires under differentials, oil pans, etc. just to get the oil liquid again.
WalterBright 7y ago
My family was stationed near London for a time. My father told me later that once an airline pilot mistook a WW2 strip for the Heathrow runway (!) and landed there, using every inch of it to get it to stop. The strip was too short to take off from, so what to do? They stripped everything off the airplane they could. Seats, interiors, galleys, everything. They put in just enough fuel to hop over the trees to Heathrow. He said they did it, but barely.
- fhars 7y ago
  Spantax used to do that in Hamburg, scroll down to „Incidents“ on https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamburg_Finkenwerder_Airport https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamburg_Finkenwerder_Airport The interesting thing is that „the end of the runway“ is actually a major river. And a Vuelling flight almost made the same mistake two years ago (but today it would be less critical as they have extended the runway to accommodate A380s some time ago).
- netsharc 7y ago
  I'm trying to google a similar "we landed here but now it's too short for us to takeoff again" story which IIRC happened in California, but I can only find this incident that happened with a cargo plane in Kansas: https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/11/gigantic-plane-stuck-kansas-because-it-landed-tiny-airport/355374/ https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/11/giganti...
  - therockspush 7y ago
    This has happened more than a few times in Wichita. They are usually aiming for KICT but hit other airports. We had to file a flight plan out of Jabara for a private jet that was actually trying to land at KICT for maintenance. Didnt make the news but we did have to plan for the minimum amount of fuel.
- jsjohnst 7y ago
  Sorta similar situation happened a few years back in Wichita Kansas. A 747 Dreamlifter (what Boeing uses to fly 787 fuselages) landed at Jabara airport (corporate jet airport) instead of the Air Force base 9 miles south of it. The videos online don’t give it justice, but from folks I know there, it was a frightful takeoff.
lb1lf 7y ago
I once owned a Lada Niva, which while it was overall a rather - to put it charitably - interesting car to own, it excelled during wintertime. The engine sump was incredibly heavy; when inquiring as to why, I was told the idea was that you could light a (small!) fire under it to make it easier to get the engine cranking in severe cold. That's Soviet engineering for you!