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"no demonstrated advantage" - said by someone who doesn't remember what it's like to wait for a large check to clear. or hasn't tried to fund their IRA via an

"no demonstrated advantage" - said by someone who doesn't remember what it's like to wait for a large check to clear. or hasn't tried to fund their IRA via an ACH transfer but their bank won't allow it bcs rules.. or hasn't wanted to wire money (or receive a wire) for a fraction of the price (and hassle) of a wire transfer. I have sent hundreds of bitcoin transactions. And I admit that it's not perfect. There's lots of room for improvement. But even given bitcoin's flaws, there are times where bitcoin is massively, gobsmackingly better than the traditional US banking system. And the US financial system has been around 10x+ as long... So much expectation born of such ignorance. It's a common problem for bitcoin. But not new. And it hasn't stopped bitcoin yet. and I doubt it will. I believe we're on the cusp of a state change in the world of digital bearer assets. It's not that bitcoin will simply survive, it's more that programmable digital assets and digital bearer assets will steadily win over most other forms of value. Unfortunately this isn't the kind of conversation that's likely to change minds - forum chats just don't tend to move the needle for most people who are entrenched in their positions. If we were to have a face to face conversation, I suspect we'd be able to find more common ground. Oh well, I've watched the tide steadily turn over the last 7yrs. And I'll gladly watch opinion continue to shift over the next decade.

paulpauper 7y ago
how long do you think it takes to turn fiat into bitcoin and bitcoin back into fiat for the recipient? Hint: its longer than clearing a check
- hanniabu 7y ago
  That's not bitcoin's fault, it's the traditional financial system's fault. The transaction can only happen at the rate of the slowest party.
  - Symbiote 7y ago
    How long does it take in European countries, where the traditional system is (depending on the country) approximately instantaneous?
vinniejames 7y ago
A good number of these negative arguments appear to have a similar line of thinking. "I don't know much about Bitcoin, or finance in general, but I can adamantly tell you Bitcoin has no benefit, something something money laundering"
- hnews_account_1 7y ago
  As a finance professional, I can tell you without shame that much of my industry doesn't understand finance either. The mask of online anonymity simply emboldens people with no knowledge to come forth and spout. I keep moving platforms trying to get away from that shit. Reddit is horrible in this regard, so I only use it for memes. HN has full credibility professionals in programming, but its finance base is really not upto snuff.
  - vinniejames 7y ago
    Does a hacker newsish platform exist for the finance world?
    - hnews_account_1 7y ago
      I'm yet to find it. For a meme-ish sub /r/wallstreetbets is pretty good. Go there and have a laugh. But places like /r/economics and /r/finance are utter shit. The best resource is financial twitter (fintwit). The news breaks there, the discussion happens there, and loads of meme-ing also takes place (which is always a nice to-have in a serious place). The only drawback is that most of them lean exactly the way I do. So I can bear the place, but I miss out on a bunch of opposing opinions and it's always a challenge finding someone on the opposite side of the fence.
      - NotASithLord 7y ago
        Have a short list of worthy follows to start breaking into it?
        7y ago
wpietri 7y ago
You haven't yet listed a specific occasion when Bitcoin is better than the alternatives. Let alone doing it for a significant group of people facing a specific problem. So I'm sticking with "no demonstrated advantage". Do existing approaches have problems, especially the legacy ones? Sure. Nobody denies that. But Bitcoin needs to be better in practice, not just in theory. I'm sure you do believe that Bitcoin is on the cusp of change. But Bitcoin has been on the cusp of change for 10 years. It's the same routine some Christians have been running for 2000 years: Jesus is coming back any day now. When they predict a specific date, they always turn out to be wrong, but that does not change things: https://twitter.com/williampietri/status/1071833726294749184 https://twitter.com/williampietri/status/1071833726294749184 I was very interested when Bitcoin appeared a decade ago. It's an interesting idea backed by interesting technology. Of course, so was 3D TV. In both cases, however much the respective fan groups are sure it's superior, in practice the great majority of humanity turns out not to care because the other options turn out to be as good or better for their actual needs.

paulpauper 7y ago

how long do you think it takes to turn fiat into bitcoin and bitcoin back into fiat for the recipient? Hint: its longer than clearing a check

hanniabu 7y ago
That's not bitcoin's fault, it's the traditional financial system's fault. The transaction can only happen at the rate of the slowest party.
- Symbiote 7y ago
  How long does it take in European countries, where the traditional system is (depending on the country) approximately instantaneous?

vinniejames 7y ago

A good number of these negative arguments appear to have a similar line of thinking. "I don't know much about Bitcoin, or finance in general, but I can adamantly tell you Bitcoin has no benefit, something something money laundering"

hnews_account_1 7y ago
As a finance professional, I can tell you without shame that much of my industry doesn't understand finance either. The mask of online anonymity simply emboldens people with no knowledge to come forth and spout. I keep moving platforms trying to get away from that shit. Reddit is horrible in this regard, so I only use it for memes. HN has full credibility professionals in programming, but its finance base is really not upto snuff.
- vinniejames 7y ago
  Does a hacker newsish platform exist for the finance world?
  - hnews_account_1 7y ago
    I'm yet to find it. For a meme-ish sub /r/wallstreetbets is pretty good. Go there and have a laugh. But places like /r/economics and /r/finance are utter shit. The best resource is financial twitter (fintwit). The news breaks there, the discussion happens there, and loads of meme-ing also takes place (which is always a nice to-have in a serious place). The only drawback is that most of them lean exactly the way I do. So I can bear the place, but I miss out on a bunch of opposing opinions and it's always a challenge finding someone on the opposite side of the fence.
    - NotASithLord 7y ago
      Have a short list of worthy follows to start breaking into it?
      - 7y ago

wpietri 7y ago

You haven't yet listed a specific occasion when Bitcoin is better than the alternatives. Let alone doing it for a significant group of people facing a specific problem. So I'm sticking with "no demonstrated advantage". Do existing approaches have problems, especially the legacy ones? Sure. Nobody denies that. But Bitcoin needs to be better in practice, not just in theory. I'm sure you do believe that Bitcoin is on the cusp of change. But Bitcoin has been on the cusp of change for 10 years. It's the same routine some Christians have been running for 2000 years: Jesus is coming back any day now. When they predict a specific date, they always turn out to be wrong, but that does not change things: https://twitter.com/williampietri/status/1071833726294749184 https://twitter.com/williampietri/status/1071833726294749184 I was very interested when Bitcoin appeared a decade ago. It's an interesting idea backed by interesting technology. Of course, so was 3D TV. In both cases, however much the respective fan groups are sure it's superior, in practice the great majority of humanity turns out not to care because the other options turn out to be as good or better for their actual needs.