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This is a fantasy in the US, change my view. We have waaaay too many overweight/obese people. And, as other comments point out, there would have to be a sacrif

This is a fantasy in the US, change my view. We have waaaay too many overweight/obese people. And, as other comments point out, there would have to be a sacrifice in terms of automobiles for this to truly work. I find it highly doubtful that Americans would be willing to make that trade. Also, I think that if it came up there would be significant push back from groups you wouldn’t expect, like the disabled or union trade workers. This “bicycles will fill the gap” is a fantasy of Boujie urbanites and the aristocracy. We talk about how the middle/lower class feels a sense of generational wealth loss, a major push to move people to bicycles from cars would really drive(no pun intended) that message home. And this is coming from someone who enjoys taking a bike instead of driving.

jdavis703 7y ago
> We have waaaay too many overweight/obese people An e-bike doesn't care if you're overweight or obese. It might reduce range a little bit... But it's not an impediment to riding. Additionally in Denmark one can see a lot of out-of-shape people riding manual (non-electric) bikes. Urban biking does not require athleticism, just as suburban driving does not require the skills of a NASCAR driver. > there would have to be a sacrifice in terms of automobiles for this to truly work. I find it highly doubtful that Americans would be willing to make that trade Cities that are investing in better non-automobile infrastructure are seeing people move to other modes of transportation. In many places there's literally no more room to expand highways. That's why voters in places like LA and Seattle are writing billion-dollar checks to build out sustainable transportation infrastructure. > We talk about how the middle/lower class feels a sense of generational wealth loss, a major push to move people to bicycles from cars would really drive(no pun intended) that message home. The average American pays about $800/month in auto-expenses. I think I spend an average of $20/month maintaining my bike. All that extra money can be used for whatever your interests might be... eating at interesting restaurants, travel, indulging in a hobby, paying down student loans, etc.
- riversflow 7y ago
  It doesn’t matter if a fat person /can/ ride a bike, if they perceive it to be more difficult, chances are they won’t. Adoption is a huge part of the problem and comparing adoption in a country that already has the infrastructure and public perception work out is laughable. Also a good time to point out that an overweight person is much more at risk of injury on a bike, and we don’t have universal healthcare. When you hit a curb in a car, you screw up your alignment, when you do it on a bike you crash into the ground, if you are unlucky it could be bad. While we’re talking about the average American, I’m getting (on mobile) that the average commute in the US is 16 miles, that’s a long way on a bike, especially if hills and inclement weather are involved. Denmark is a highly urbanized country with a temperate climate, unlike vast swaths of the US, and it is also mostly flat. A big part of that $800 monthly cost is related to how cars are treated as status symbols. My monthly cost of ownership is closer to $100, all thing included, and I can travel to and from work at 70 mph comfortably in virtual any conditions. People are going to feel absolutely miserable biking to work at their minimum wage job in inclement weather. Also >Urban biking doesn’t require athleticism While I agree in principle seems factually untrue in the US in my experience. The people I know who haven’t been hit by a car/bus on their bike skews strongly towards the fit crowd. You have to be fast, agile and alert to not get hit in the US, sadly. I’m also going to call BS on the west coast actually getting anything done on the mass transit front, possibly Seattle, I’m less familiar with how things get done there, but in California a billion dollars doesn’t go very far at all in the construction biz, don’t forget that the Eastern span of the bay bridge cost $6.5B, took over a decade, and had 0 costs associated with land acquisition and zoning. The high speed rail project is proving to be also be an enormous boondoggle.
wffurr 7y ago
I don't think weight comes into it. The primary issue the 60% of people who fall into the "interested but concerned" category cite is safety around cars. The way to fix that is with a multi-faceted approach of engineering (protected bicycle facilities, dedicated bicycle signals at intersections), education (classes for both drivers and cyclists that focus on appropriate behavior around bicycles), enforcement (focused on those with the ability to do the most harm, which is to say car drivers), encouragement (bike to work week! December bike light giveaways! Financial incentives to meet or exceed those available to drivers or transit-takers), and equity (making all of these things available to all citizens, not just a privileged few). The League of American Bicyclists has a nice write-up on the 6 Es, as it's called, https://bikeleague.org/content/5-es https://bikeleague.org/content/5-es
- riversflow 7y ago
  60% interested but concerned is not even close to enough, there are significant entrenched views (car culture) and lobbies(AARP, Big oil) who will make this very difficult/impossible. Also how many Americans are “interested” in being fit, or following a diet to lose weight. Interest means little in the face of a routine that requires substantially more effort. And yes, riding an eBike is substantially more effort than hopping into a climate controlled automobile. >engineering The US has so much infrastructure debt it’s crazy. Our bridges are falling apart, I don’t see bicycle infrastructure being a priority any time soon. The spice must flow and so semi-trucks must be made roads to drive on. Also a Billion dollars is chump change in California infrastructure terms. The upgraded eastern span of the bay bridge was 6.5 Billion, and required no land acquisition. I try not to think about the HSR boondoggle. >education I don’t see this being realistic at all. AARP will fight any sort of further drivers-ed, and the US already has very lax driving standards. Even in California people resent cyclists. >enforcement How does this mesh with (5)equitable? Being able to bike to work is super privileged. It means you have a job where arriving tired and sweaty is okay. It means you have time and energy to bike to and from work, the average US commute is something like 16 miles. It also means you are financially secure enough that you don’t need a backup place to sleep just in case, and you have adequate healthcare as biking is obsentsibly more (especially at fault) injury prone than driving. Enforcement primarily on cars would be a covert regressive income tax. >equitable How are we going to restructure the US to make biking equitable? Most of the wealth is concentrated in a dozen or so urban areas. Is the solution for middle class people to sell their house in the burbs so they can rent in the city so they can ride an ebike to work? such equity.
meej 7y ago
You've got this entirely backwards. E-Bikes are an enabling factor for overweight people to start using bikes more. I know because I am one, my BMI is 33 and it's one of the main driving factors behind my decision to acquire an e-bike in 2018. (Another driving factor is the fact that my commute home involves an elevation gain of ~550ft, which would be tough even if I was not obese. I had been a bike commuter when I lived in the Bay Area but after moving to Portland I had a longer commute with more hills and I couldn't make it work with my old bike.) The biggest barriers to people in the US riding bikes more are having enough safe bicycling infrastructure to make trips feasible without having to go too far out of their way for a safe trip and having secure parking at their destination. These are solvable problems if we have the will to do so. I admit I'm lucky, I live in Portland where we have a pretty good greenway network -- I encounter very few cars on my commute -- and I work at Oregon Health & Science University, so I get to park my bike at the largest bicycle parking lot in North America before I hop on the Portland Aerial Tram for the last leg of my commute. Plus I get a commute incentive of $1.50 every day I ride. OHSU does have unique incentives to limit employee driving -- the city limits how much employee parking we have, so spots are limited. Daily parking passes are expensive and sell out quickly; you can expect to wait at least seven years for a permanent parking pass. The bus takes 20-40 minutes longer than my bike ride depending on transfer connection timing. The e-bike is my best commute option, hands down. Even in the rain, it's far more enjoyable. I'm actually on my second e-bike; my first one was my old bike converted with a GeoOrbital Wheel. That was great until it started malfunctioning, and it was the second time I sent it back to the company for service that I decided to invest in a new e-bike with a larger battery and more range. Now I not only commute by bike, I've acquired a cheap cargo trailer so I can do my grocery shopping, I ride it to therapy appointments, and I even rode it to a Trail Blazers game once (we have a set of secure BikeLink lockers at the Rose Quarter Transit Center, which I first used in the Bay Area and something Portland needs more of). Portland's climate means I can ride nearly year-round; I won't ride when the streets are icy but that's pretty rare around here. I am really, really close to being car-free and my e-bike is the reason why. I recommend everyone try riding one at least once.
- riversflow 7y ago
  Nice! I just don’t think you fully appreciate how privileged your position is. Giving up car ownership is extremely privileged. You have a good, salaried job, with I’m assuming flexible and encouraging employers. You have enough money for therapy and urban rent (and Blazers tickets!) and enough free time to bike everywhere, and I’m guessing decent health insurance to boot. You also are completely devoid of responsibilities for others. No kids to take to soccer games, no family members of friends in the hospital or who need taking care of. You can afford to fly/hire a driver to travel. I’d venture a guess that most Americans aren’t in a position like this. It’s a lot easier to physically exert yourself to get to work when most of your needs are met. You most likely have an okay boss and at least somewhat enjoyable work. For a lot of people their commute is one of their only times of respite, and it seems they like to drive a car in comfort during that time, it’s why Americans spend so much money on luxury cars (and as a form conspicuous consumption). People of means are quick to forget how important 10 minutes can be when you’re poor and that a car serves as a backup place to sleep and store your effects. It’s not just a dangerous status symbol for everyone. But back to my main point. I just don’t see Americans as a whole adopting bicycles. Able bodied people will routinely wait in line in for minutes in parking lots to park 100’ closer and wait in line(also for minutes) for the elevator to go up three floors. Not everyone is overweight/obese because they are unmotivated, you obviously aren’t, but I would wager based on my experiences that most Americans aren’t motivated(by much beside sloth), and I don’t see how an elected body is going to change our infrastructure enough to motivate people. AARP is a big lobby, and have 0 interest in cedeing roads or sidewalks to bicyclist.

jdavis703 7y ago

> We have waaaay too many overweight/obese people An e-bike doesn't care if you're overweight or obese. It might reduce range a little bit... But it's not an impediment to riding. Additionally in Denmark one can see a lot of out-of-shape people riding manual (non-electric) bikes. Urban biking does not require athleticism, just as suburban driving does not require the skills of a NASCAR driver. > there would have to be a sacrifice in terms of automobiles for this to truly work. I find it highly doubtful that Americans would be willing to make that trade Cities that are investing in better non-automobile infrastructure are seeing people move to other modes of transportation. In many places there's literally no more room to expand highways. That's why voters in places like LA and Seattle are writing billion-dollar checks to build out sustainable transportation infrastructure. > We talk about how the middle/lower class feels a sense of generational wealth loss, a major push to move people to bicycles from cars would really drive(no pun intended) that message home. The average American pays about $800/month in auto-expenses. I think I spend an average of $20/month maintaining my bike. All that extra money can be used for whatever your interests might be... eating at interesting restaurants, travel, indulging in a hobby, paying down student loans, etc.

riversflow 7y ago
It doesn’t matter if a fat person /can/ ride a bike, if they perceive it to be more difficult, chances are they won’t. Adoption is a huge part of the problem and comparing adoption in a country that already has the infrastructure and public perception work out is laughable. Also a good time to point out that an overweight person is much more at risk of injury on a bike, and we don’t have universal healthcare. When you hit a curb in a car, you screw up your alignment, when you do it on a bike you crash into the ground, if you are unlucky it could be bad. While we’re talking about the average American, I’m getting (on mobile) that the average commute in the US is 16 miles, that’s a long way on a bike, especially if hills and inclement weather are involved. Denmark is a highly urbanized country with a temperate climate, unlike vast swaths of the US, and it is also mostly flat. A big part of that $800 monthly cost is related to how cars are treated as status symbols. My monthly cost of ownership is closer to $100, all thing included, and I can travel to and from work at 70 mph comfortably in virtual any conditions. People are going to feel absolutely miserable biking to work at their minimum wage job in inclement weather. Also >Urban biking doesn’t require athleticism While I agree in principle seems factually untrue in the US in my experience. The people I know who haven’t been hit by a car/bus on their bike skews strongly towards the fit crowd. You have to be fast, agile and alert to not get hit in the US, sadly. I’m also going to call BS on the west coast actually getting anything done on the mass transit front, possibly Seattle, I’m less familiar with how things get done there, but in California a billion dollars doesn’t go very far at all in the construction biz, don’t forget that the Eastern span of the bay bridge cost $6.5B, took over a decade, and had 0 costs associated with land acquisition and zoning. The high speed rail project is proving to be also be an enormous boondoggle.

wffurr 7y ago

I don't think weight comes into it. The primary issue the 60% of people who fall into the "interested but concerned" category cite is safety around cars. The way to fix that is with a multi-faceted approach of engineering (protected bicycle facilities, dedicated bicycle signals at intersections), education (classes for both drivers and cyclists that focus on appropriate behavior around bicycles), enforcement (focused on those with the ability to do the most harm, which is to say car drivers), encouragement (bike to work week! December bike light giveaways! Financial incentives to meet or exceed those available to drivers or transit-takers), and equity (making all of these things available to all citizens, not just a privileged few). The League of American Bicyclists has a nice write-up on the 6 Es, as it's called, https://bikeleague.org/content/5-es https://bikeleague.org/content/5-es

riversflow 7y ago
60% interested but concerned is not even close to enough, there are significant entrenched views (car culture) and lobbies(AARP, Big oil) who will make this very difficult/impossible. Also how many Americans are “interested” in being fit, or following a diet to lose weight. Interest means little in the face of a routine that requires substantially more effort. And yes, riding an eBike is substantially more effort than hopping into a climate controlled automobile. >engineering The US has so much infrastructure debt it’s crazy. Our bridges are falling apart, I don’t see bicycle infrastructure being a priority any time soon. The spice must flow and so semi-trucks must be made roads to drive on. Also a Billion dollars is chump change in California infrastructure terms. The upgraded eastern span of the bay bridge was 6.5 Billion, and required no land acquisition. I try not to think about the HSR boondoggle. >education I don’t see this being realistic at all. AARP will fight any sort of further drivers-ed, and the US already has very lax driving standards. Even in California people resent cyclists. >enforcement How does this mesh with (5)equitable? Being able to bike to work is super privileged. It means you have a job where arriving tired and sweaty is okay. It means you have time and energy to bike to and from work, the average US commute is something like 16 miles. It also means you are financially secure enough that you don’t need a backup place to sleep just in case, and you have adequate healthcare as biking is obsentsibly more (especially at fault) injury prone than driving. Enforcement primarily on cars would be a covert regressive income tax. >equitable How are we going to restructure the US to make biking equitable? Most of the wealth is concentrated in a dozen or so urban areas. Is the solution for middle class people to sell their house in the burbs so they can rent in the city so they can ride an ebike to work? such equity.

meej 7y ago

You've got this entirely backwards. E-Bikes are an enabling factor for overweight people to start using bikes more. I know because I am one, my BMI is 33 and it's one of the main driving factors behind my decision to acquire an e-bike in 2018. (Another driving factor is the fact that my commute home involves an elevation gain of ~550ft, which would be tough even if I was not obese. I had been a bike commuter when I lived in the Bay Area but after moving to Portland I had a longer commute with more hills and I couldn't make it work with my old bike.) The biggest barriers to people in the US riding bikes more are having enough safe bicycling infrastructure to make trips feasible without having to go too far out of their way for a safe trip and having secure parking at their destination. These are solvable problems if we have the will to do so. I admit I'm lucky, I live in Portland where we have a pretty good greenway network -- I encounter very few cars on my commute -- and I work at Oregon Health & Science University, so I get to park my bike at the largest bicycle parking lot in North America before I hop on the Portland Aerial Tram for the last leg of my commute. Plus I get a commute incentive of $1.50 every day I ride. OHSU does have unique incentives to limit employee driving -- the city limits how much employee parking we have, so spots are limited. Daily parking passes are expensive and sell out quickly; you can expect to wait at least seven years for a permanent parking pass. The bus takes 20-40 minutes longer than my bike ride depending on transfer connection timing. The e-bike is my best commute option, hands down. Even in the rain, it's far more enjoyable. I'm actually on my second e-bike; my first one was my old bike converted with a GeoOrbital Wheel. That was great until it started malfunctioning, and it was the second time I sent it back to the company for service that I decided to invest in a new e-bike with a larger battery and more range. Now I not only commute by bike, I've acquired a cheap cargo trailer so I can do my grocery shopping, I ride it to therapy appointments, and I even rode it to a Trail Blazers game once (we have a set of secure BikeLink lockers at the Rose Quarter Transit Center, which I first used in the Bay Area and something Portland needs more of). Portland's climate means I can ride nearly year-round; I won't ride when the streets are icy but that's pretty rare around here. I am really, really close to being car-free and my e-bike is the reason why. I recommend everyone try riding one at least once.

riversflow 7y ago
Nice! I just don’t think you fully appreciate how privileged your position is. Giving up car ownership is extremely privileged. You have a good, salaried job, with I’m assuming flexible and encouraging employers. You have enough money for therapy and urban rent (and Blazers tickets!) and enough free time to bike everywhere, and I’m guessing decent health insurance to boot. You also are completely devoid of responsibilities for others. No kids to take to soccer games, no family members of friends in the hospital or who need taking care of. You can afford to fly/hire a driver to travel. I’d venture a guess that most Americans aren’t in a position like this. It’s a lot easier to physically exert yourself to get to work when most of your needs are met. You most likely have an okay boss and at least somewhat enjoyable work. For a lot of people their commute is one of their only times of respite, and it seems they like to drive a car in comfort during that time, it’s why Americans spend so much money on luxury cars (and as a form conspicuous consumption). People of means are quick to forget how important 10 minutes can be when you’re poor and that a car serves as a backup place to sleep and store your effects. It’s not just a dangerous status symbol for everyone. But back to my main point. I just don’t see Americans as a whole adopting bicycles. Able bodied people will routinely wait in line in for minutes in parking lots to park 100’ closer and wait in line(also for minutes) for the elevator to go up three floors. Not everyone is overweight/obese because they are unmotivated, you obviously aren’t, but I would wager based on my experiences that most Americans aren’t motivated(by much beside sloth), and I don’t see how an elected body is going to change our infrastructure enough to motivate people. AARP is a big lobby, and have 0 interest in cedeing roads or sidewalks to bicyclist.