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> If this project fails it'll probably be concurrent with a SV collapse in which case does it even matter? If I invest $100 in MSFT and you invest your entire

> If this project fails it'll probably be concurrent with a SV collapse in which case does it even matter? If I invest $100 in MSFT and you invest your entire life savings in MSFT when the share price goes down it kind of does matter. >If you're gonna take risks that involve catastrophic failure anyway you might as well bet big on upside Or, to put it more reasonably, if you're going to take high risk opportunities do it with a chunk of investment you're able to lose, don't risk your entire company on it - which Softbank seem to do. Does it not concern you that Softbank almost managed to bring their entire business into jeopary because of a single failed investment?

Havoc 7y ago
>If I invest $100 in MSFT and you invest your entire life saving Thats missing the point I'm trying to convey. Try this analogy: If you owe the back 100 Mil you've got a problem. If you owe the bank a 100 billion the bank has a problem. The rules shift if you up the stakes enough. Return, time frames, values etc start becoming malleable concepts. You think it's a coincidence that masa talks about 300 year time frames? Not convinced this will work. But I am convinced he's a step ahead of everyone else in rolling this dice. And if it does work it'll crush everyone else. >Or, to put it more reasonably Nothing about this is reasonable. That's why it could work
- Traster 7y ago
  But they won't owe the bank 100 billion. They're going to owe several totalitarian states 100 billion. They're going to owe money to the guys that chopped up Jamal Khashoggi. The thing is though, 100 billion is a lot for venture capital, but it's less than 1/10th of the market cap of some of the largest publicly traded companies. That's part of why everyone is so skeptical of Softbank, because the second they come into contact with a liquid market, they have problems. >Nothing about this is reasonable. That's why it could work No. Even if it does work that will not be why.
- JumpCrisscross 7y ago
  > If you owe the back [sic] 100 Mil you've got a problem. If you owe the bank a 100 billion the bank has a problem. SoftBank is big, but not big enough to threaten the solvency of the Gulf states. Nobody has an incentive to bail out the Vision Fund apart from Masa. He’s already raiding SoftBank's balance sheet. The reason the bank line works is banks are highly leveraged. A small hole blows the stack. That gives the $10bn borrower leverage over the trillion-dollar bank. Not so with the Vision Fund, where the prime LPs are lending out of equity and the employees are the ones leveraged.
- memn0nis 7y ago
  Definitely disagree. You're essentially making the argument that Softbank is too big to fail. This is not true.

Havoc 7y ago

>If I invest $100 in MSFT and you invest your entire life saving Thats missing the point I'm trying to convey. Try this analogy: If you owe the back 100 Mil you've got a problem. If you owe the bank a 100 billion the bank has a problem. The rules shift if you up the stakes enough. Return, time frames, values etc start becoming malleable concepts. You think it's a coincidence that masa talks about 300 year time frames? Not convinced this will work. But I am convinced he's a step ahead of everyone else in rolling this dice. And if it does work it'll crush everyone else. >Or, to put it more reasonably Nothing about this is reasonable. That's why it could work

Traster 7y ago
But they won't owe the bank 100 billion. They're going to owe several totalitarian states 100 billion. They're going to owe money to the guys that chopped up Jamal Khashoggi. The thing is though, 100 billion is a lot for venture capital, but it's less than 1/10th of the market cap of some of the largest publicly traded companies. That's part of why everyone is so skeptical of Softbank, because the second they come into contact with a liquid market, they have problems. >Nothing about this is reasonable. That's why it could work No. Even if it does work that will not be why.
JumpCrisscross 7y ago
> If you owe the back [sic] 100 Mil you've got a problem. If you owe the bank a 100 billion the bank has a problem. SoftBank is big, but not big enough to threaten the solvency of the Gulf states. Nobody has an incentive to bail out the Vision Fund apart from Masa. He’s already raiding SoftBank's balance sheet. The reason the bank line works is banks are highly leveraged. A small hole blows the stack. That gives the $10bn borrower leverage over the trillion-dollar bank. Not so with the Vision Fund, where the prime LPs are lending out of equity and the employees are the ones leveraged.
memn0nis 7y ago
Definitely disagree. You're essentially making the argument that Softbank is too big to fail. This is not true.