4 ms·

One timezone covering enough longitudinal variation to want five timezones is a dumb idea. Doing the same thing in a country with enough east-west span to cove

by evgen 16y ago

One timezone covering enough longitudinal variation to want five timezones is a dumb idea. Doing the same thing in a country with enough east-west span to cover ten timezones would be an incredibly dumb idea.

aaronblohowiak 16y ago
What, why? Does waking up at 6 have any different intrinsic value than waking up a 3.5 or 11 ? Ever since time zones, there hasn't been an intrinsic meaning to time (who uses sun dials?) We should all just be on the same time, the whole world around.
- rue 16y ago
  Indeed. It can also be explained as a matter of simple efficiency: Currently when synchronising something, two pieces of information must be known (the time, and the timezone). If using a single timezone, only one is required (whether it's night or day at either end is inconsequential, only the party at that end really needs to worry about it and can provide a range of hours suitable to them).
  - rottencupcakes 16y ago
    This is absolutely incorrect. Except in the singular example of arranging telecommunication across timezones, you have to maintain MORE information under this system. When I currently travel, I can make the assumption that any restaurant will be open by 11 AM, that I have to check out of my hotel by 11 AM and that I can't check in until 3 PM. In your system, standard store hours have become a random regional fluctuation instead of a strictly maintained standard. I still need to maintain timezone information, but I ALSO need to do math in my head to figure out if it is an appropriate time to go to a certain kind of store.
    - salvadors 16y ago
      You obviously don't travel much. There is huge variation in these sorts of things worldwide. See, for example, http://www.spanish-town-guides.com/Opening_Hours.htm http://www.spanish-town-guides.com/Opening_Hours.htm
      - georgieporgie 16y ago
        That's a cultural issue, and Spain has only one time zone anyway. A lot of business can be conducted across the United States, which is fairly consistent in its hours. I suspect that Russia is fairly consistent within their borders as well.
        salvadors 16y ago
        The cultural issue is the entire point here, so it can't really be brushed away. The idea that pretty much any list of things could be true worldwide falls down rather quickly. (PS Spain has multiple timezones: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=141 http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=141 vs http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=683 http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=683 for example)
      - ghshephard 16y ago
        Which of the three isn't (generally) true all over the world: o Restaurants open at 11:00 AM. o You check out of your hotel no earlier than 11:00 AM o You can check in at 3:00 PM. Certainly different hotels allow things like Early Checkin (I've checked in as early as 8:00 AM in hotels with a lot of vacancy), and late checkout (most hotels will let you check out at 12:00, and for a small fee, 1:00 is usually no problem). And yes, there are lots of restaurants that only do dinners, or breakfasts/lunches - but for a restaurant that does two shifts - 11:00 AM is usually a guaranteed time for it being open. But, I don't think I've ever been to a country where the checkin/checkout/restaurant opening wasn't generally true. Admittedly, I haven't been to the "One Time Zone China" - that might throw my theory out the door...
        salvadors 16y ago
    - rue 16y ago
      I don't know which of us is “correct”, but I disagree with your opinion on the matter. You're making an assumption of a standard time of day when stuff's open (I agree, 11:00 is a reasonable assumption). I can, however, make that same assumption. In your travel model, the traveler must know the timezone (and work with assumptions from there). In my mode, the traveler would need to know the “standard daytime hour” and work with assumptions from there. So, both require one piece of info when traveling, but a single timezone wins out when synchronising.
    - jarek 16y ago
      When you travel, how do you know what time it is? Either way, you have to adjust something. Right now, you adjust your known time difference (i.e., change the clock, either by knowing the difference or by asking someone local). With that proposal, you would adjust the known opening times.
  - anigbrowl 16y ago
    With a single timezone then you need to know the longitude of the remote location instead. There's a book (called Longitude, unsurprisingly) about the piecewise invention of accurate chronometry in order to solve the problem of knowing your longitude at sea. Latitude you can work out pretty easily as long as you have an almanac, compass, and a protractor, but longitude is a problems sans clocks and logs of distance traveled.
arohner 16y ago
Why are timezones a good idea? 12:00 is not solar noon for essentially everyone.
gojomo 16y ago
You're assuming your conclusion ("want five timezones"), and calling the alternative 'dumb' and 'incredibly dumb' isn't much of a reasoned justification. Why is adjusting the clock numbers better than adjusting local practices? Why does a single time work well for China... and the US armed forces globally? Shouldn't we be optimizing for long-distance collaboration, now that we have the telecom technology to do so?
rdl 16y ago
USSR did exactly that, historically (there was one time; Moscow time).
- griftah 16y ago
  No. USSR was always divided into several time zones. Moscow time is just a soviet analog of GMT. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_in_Russia#Developments http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_in_Russia#Developments
  - rdl 16y ago
    Ah! You're right -- but a lot more civilian-visible things (train schedules, etc.) were specified in Moscow Time throughout the USSR, whereas in the US it is very rare to use Zulu time/UTC or even DC time for anything.

by evgen 16y ago

aaronblohowiak 16y ago

What, why? Does waking up at 6 have any different intrinsic value than waking up a 3.5 or 11 ? Ever since time zones, there hasn't been an intrinsic meaning to time (who uses sun dials?) We should all just be on the same time, the whole world around.

rue 16y ago
Indeed. It can also be explained as a matter of simple efficiency: Currently when synchronising something, two pieces of information must be known (the time, and the timezone). If using a single timezone, only one is required (whether it's night or day at either end is inconsequential, only the party at that end really needs to worry about it and can provide a range of hours suitable to them).
- rottencupcakes 16y ago
  This is absolutely incorrect. Except in the singular example of arranging telecommunication across timezones, you have to maintain MORE information under this system. When I currently travel, I can make the assumption that any restaurant will be open by 11 AM, that I have to check out of my hotel by 11 AM and that I can't check in until 3 PM. In your system, standard store hours have become a random regional fluctuation instead of a strictly maintained standard. I still need to maintain timezone information, but I ALSO need to do math in my head to figure out if it is an appropriate time to go to a certain kind of store.
  - salvadors 16y ago
    You obviously don't travel much. There is huge variation in these sorts of things worldwide. See, for example, http://www.spanish-town-guides.com/Opening_Hours.htm http://www.spanish-town-guides.com/Opening_Hours.htm
    - georgieporgie 16y ago
      That's a cultural issue, and Spain has only one time zone anyway. A lot of business can be conducted across the United States, which is fairly consistent in its hours. I suspect that Russia is fairly consistent within their borders as well.
      - salvadors 16y ago
        The cultural issue is the entire point here, so it can't really be brushed away. The idea that pretty much any list of things could be true worldwide falls down rather quickly. (PS Spain has multiple timezones: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=141 http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=141 vs http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=683 http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=683 for example)
    - ghshephard 16y ago
      Which of the three isn't (generally) true all over the world: o Restaurants open at 11:00 AM. o You check out of your hotel no earlier than 11:00 AM o You can check in at 3:00 PM. Certainly different hotels allow things like Early Checkin (I've checked in as early as 8:00 AM in hotels with a lot of vacancy), and late checkout (most hotels will let you check out at 12:00, and for a small fee, 1:00 is usually no problem). And yes, there are lots of restaurants that only do dinners, or breakfasts/lunches - but for a restaurant that does two shifts - 11:00 AM is usually a guaranteed time for it being open. But, I don't think I've ever been to a country where the checkin/checkout/restaurant opening wasn't generally true. Admittedly, I haven't been to the "One Time Zone China" - that might throw my theory out the door...
      - salvadors 16y ago
  - rue 16y ago
    I don't know which of us is “correct”, but I disagree with your opinion on the matter. You're making an assumption of a standard time of day when stuff's open (I agree, 11:00 is a reasonable assumption). I can, however, make that same assumption. In your travel model, the traveler must know the timezone (and work with assumptions from there). In my mode, the traveler would need to know the “standard daytime hour” and work with assumptions from there. So, both require one piece of info when traveling, but a single timezone wins out when synchronising.
  - jarek 16y ago
    When you travel, how do you know what time it is? Either way, you have to adjust something. Right now, you adjust your known time difference (i.e., change the clock, either by knowing the difference or by asking someone local). With that proposal, you would adjust the known opening times.
- anigbrowl 16y ago
  With a single timezone then you need to know the longitude of the remote location instead. There's a book (called Longitude, unsurprisingly) about the piecewise invention of accurate chronometry in order to solve the problem of knowing your longitude at sea. Latitude you can work out pretty easily as long as you have an almanac, compass, and a protractor, but longitude is a problems sans clocks and logs of distance traveled.

arohner 16y ago

Why are timezones a good idea? 12:00 is not solar noon for essentially everyone.

gojomo 16y ago

You're assuming your conclusion ("want five timezones"), and calling the alternative 'dumb' and 'incredibly dumb' isn't much of a reasoned justification. Why is adjusting the clock numbers better than adjusting local practices? Why does a single time work well for China... and the US armed forces globally? Shouldn't we be optimizing for long-distance collaboration, now that we have the telecom technology to do so?

rdl 16y ago

USSR did exactly that, historically (there was one time; Moscow time).

griftah 16y ago
No. USSR was always divided into several time zones. Moscow time is just a soviet analog of GMT. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_in_Russia#Developments http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_in_Russia#Developments
- rdl 16y ago
  Ah! You're right -- but a lot more civilian-visible things (train schedules, etc.) were specified in Moscow Time throughout the USSR, whereas in the US it is very rare to use Zulu time/UTC or even DC time for anything.