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> All Corellium has done is virtualize hardware that can run iOS This is a downright lie. >The Corellium Apple Product makes modifications to iOS that allows

by FDSGSG 7y ago

> All Corellium has done is virtualize hardware that can run iOS This is a downright lie. >The Corellium Apple Product makes modifications to iOS that allows it to be installed on, and run from, Corellium-developed or Corellium-operated hardware. Such modifications include disabling loadable firmware validation, disabling self-verification of the FIPS module, adding Corellium software to the “trust cache,” and instructing the restore tool not to contact Apple servers for kernel / device tree / firmware signing. - > But if the user provides the IPSW to run Ok, but that's not how Corellium works as is evident from the links in TFA https://i.imgur.com/RXe2aE2.png https://i.imgur.com/RXe2aE2.png

jakeashacks 7y ago
There is nothing wrong with doing modifications. Jailbreaks do modifications to iOS but they are legal. And Corellium might not ask the user for the software but they still are downloading it from Apple servers, so I don't see how that makes a difference (but if it does, Corellium can very well apply the upload-your-own-ipsw idea)
- jjeaff 7y ago
  I don't think jailbreaking is necessarily legal. There is a lot of conflicting case law. I don't know if there have been any iOS jailbreak related cases but the Sony, geohot thing comes to mind. And cracking drm, even for backup purposes seems to be against the dmca.
  - jakeashacks 7y ago
    Jailbreaking is against DMCA laws (which by the way are pretty stupid; they should only account for cases when the locks are circumvented for piracy/malware purposes; but at least we got exemptions...), but there is an exemption that specifically allows jailbreaking. Important to note however, that is a DMCA exemption, not an "EULA exemption" (used quotes because that term probably doesn't exist), the exemption ignores the DMCA law, not the EULA, which proves that the EULA isn't really legally enforceable, it's more of a threat from Apple "if you do that we won't give you support/service".
- FDSGSG 7y ago
  > Jailbreaks do modifications to iOS but they are legal As your subsequent comment points out, jailbreaks are specifically exempt. Corellium performs modifications to crack iOS's licensing, which is clearly distinct from jailbreaking. It's the nature of the modifications they're distributing that's the problem.
  - jakeashacks 7y ago
    Jailbreaking is exempt from the DMCA law, not from any terms Apple might give using an EULA. > which is clearly distinct from jailbreaking It really isn't. The modifications Corellium does are the same modifications a jailbreak would do and done for the exact same purposes. A jailbroken device can be used for security research purposes and so can Corellium, unsigned apps or tweaks can be installed on a jailbroken device and so they can on Corellium.
    - FDSGSG 7y ago
      > and instructing the restore tool not to contact Apple servers for kernel / device tree / firmware signing.
      - jakeashacks 7y ago
        That is not a modification of iOS, that's a custom restore tool. Restore tools are not part of iOS. You can make your own restore tool and instruct it to do whatever you want. Such tools include idevicerestore, futurerestore etc.
m-p-3 7y ago
There are many game emulators that cheats by altering the game at runtime to optimize performance or improve graphics quality at the loss of some accuracy. Doesn't make it illegal per-se.

by FDSGSG 7y ago

jakeashacks 7y ago

There is nothing wrong with doing modifications. Jailbreaks do modifications to iOS but they are legal. And Corellium might not ask the user for the software but they still are downloading it from Apple servers, so I don't see how that makes a difference (but if it does, Corellium can very well apply the upload-your-own-ipsw idea)

jjeaff 7y ago
I don't think jailbreaking is necessarily legal. There is a lot of conflicting case law. I don't know if there have been any iOS jailbreak related cases but the Sony, geohot thing comes to mind. And cracking drm, even for backup purposes seems to be against the dmca.
- jakeashacks 7y ago
  Jailbreaking is against DMCA laws (which by the way are pretty stupid; they should only account for cases when the locks are circumvented for piracy/malware purposes; but at least we got exemptions...), but there is an exemption that specifically allows jailbreaking. Important to note however, that is a DMCA exemption, not an "EULA exemption" (used quotes because that term probably doesn't exist), the exemption ignores the DMCA law, not the EULA, which proves that the EULA isn't really legally enforceable, it's more of a threat from Apple "if you do that we won't give you support/service".
FDSGSG 7y ago
> Jailbreaks do modifications to iOS but they are legal As your subsequent comment points out, jailbreaks are specifically exempt. Corellium performs modifications to crack iOS's licensing, which is clearly distinct from jailbreaking. It's the nature of the modifications they're distributing that's the problem.
- jakeashacks 7y ago
  Jailbreaking is exempt from the DMCA law, not from any terms Apple might give using an EULA. > which is clearly distinct from jailbreaking It really isn't. The modifications Corellium does are the same modifications a jailbreak would do and done for the exact same purposes. A jailbroken device can be used for security research purposes and so can Corellium, unsigned apps or tweaks can be installed on a jailbroken device and so they can on Corellium.
  - FDSGSG 7y ago
    > and instructing the restore tool not to contact Apple servers for kernel / device tree / firmware signing.
    - jakeashacks 7y ago
      That is not a modification of iOS, that's a custom restore tool. Restore tools are not part of iOS. You can make your own restore tool and instruct it to do whatever you want. Such tools include idevicerestore, futurerestore etc.

m-p-3 7y ago

There are many game emulators that cheats by altering the game at runtime to optimize performance or improve graphics quality at the loss of some accuracy. Doesn't make it illegal per-se.