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People have sent me this link because I've reduced my food packaging to filling less than one load of trash per year (which I blog about http://joshuaspodek.com

by spodek 7y ago

People have sent me this link because I've reduced my food packaging to filling less than one load of trash per year (which I blog about http://joshuaspodek.com/avoiding-food-packaging-2 http://joshuaspodek.com/avoiding-food-packaging-2) and my diet has become more delicious, cheaper, more social, healthier, and more accessible for people in food deserts, who have invited me to help them cook this way. People also keep suggesting I start a restaurant since the food tastes so good and is so easy to make. I'm waiting to meet the right person with experience starting restaurants. I'm posting because while everyone who knows the numbers considers the amount of food waste and packaging we create unconscionable, what I don't think people realize is that what the food industry purports to solve -- that industrial food is more convenient or tastes more appealing -- is all wrong compared to once you learn to cook. Then from scratch is faster, cheaper, more delicious, more convenient. The backbone of industrial food is ignorance and lack of skill. In places with tons of fast food restaurants but no farmers markets or fresh produce, the best solution is more cooking from scratch to teach people to demand fresh. The transition is hard, but doable and a great project for enterprising people who want to help people improve their lives and communities. I find it tremendously rewarding.

close04 7y ago
Read your blog post and there are 2 remarks I'd like to make: > You just go to the store, buy food without packaging, and don’t buy food with packaging. This is kind of a truism and a circular reference. You avoid food packaging by not buying food with packaging. I don't have the option of buying any fluid dairy product (or anything fluid more or less) in anything but a carton or plastic bottle/cup. And that's just an example, many other items simply don't come in a non-packaged form, or it's lower quality when bought in bulk, even if it's cheaper. If it's cheaper and better I think it's a no-brainer that people would go for it. > the farm I get most of my summer and fall vegetables from [...] how much more flavor they have than what stores sell It's great if you have this option of buying from a farm but it's not a sustainable one for most. In the countries that could make the biggest difference with food packaging very few have no access to such a farm. And the supply of "wholesome, farm grown, bio" food is limited. Either the price would skyrocket due to the huge demand, or they would be less "wholesome" and more "supermarket". It's the same as when you hear that "everybody should buy second had stuff because it helps the environment and it's cheaper". There's a bit of hidden paradox in there.
- lotsofpulp 7y ago
  I don’t see how one can consume dairy and meat without packaging. And given the choice between not eating dairy and death, I would choose death.
  - mbrock 7y ago
    I get butter, cheese, and sour cream at a local zero waste shop. We don't use dairy milk though, just nut milk and oat milk where we buy the nuts and oats in bulk and blend with water. https://treadingmyownpath.com/2017/07/13/plastic-free-milk-yoghurt-cheese/ https://treadingmyownpath.com/2017/07/13/plastic-free-milk-y... https://www.reddit.com/r/ZeroWaste/comments/62kvzi/dairy_products/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ZeroWaste/comments/62kvzi/dairy_pro...
    - close04 7y ago
      The point was to get rid of packaging entirely, not just replace plastic packaging with paper or glass. I can't really see how I can hygienically procure and transport many basic food products and types without packaging. This being said I think using and reusing more durable packaging should be the way forward. Glass in particular is one type that can be reused instead of recycled. I grew up with glass bottles (unbranded 0.5l and 1l) being reused and you'd trade an empty one in to get a full one. Most of the liquid stuff we had around the house was stored in these identical glass bottles instead of 100 different sizes and shapes of bottles.
      - mbrock 7y ago
        I mean, I just bring some bags to the store and fill them up! And bottles for laundry detergent, oils, etc. Several of these zero waste shops opened in my city (an eastern European capital) the past couple of years.
      - shantly 7y ago
        A glass bottle you return isn’t “cheating” any more than bringing your own bag, IMO.
wruza 7y ago
That’s interesting. My grandma (who is also a self-growing plantation lady) always complains that store tomatoes are tasteless. But that is offset by the price. She works all day growing them, and stores try to sell good vegetables sometimes, but prices are putting buyers off. “Chinese chemical synthetics” are much cheaper and affordable. I tried to calculate, out of pure scientific interest, and with my income I could not allocate enough time to not get serious net negative, even if was interested in shoveling and taste. Maybe it’s a local thing. How much time and money do you spend on growing these?
- dmos62 7y ago
  I've lived in some places where you can find local-farmer markets, where you can get high quality locally sourced vegetables, fruit, diary, eggs, fish, etc. In some places they're cheaper than store-bought, in others they're competitively priced or more expensive. My point being that you don't always have to choose between the extremes of storebought v. self-grown. Part of my family participates in a local collective that buys local produce directly from producers in bulk, and in such a way they get cheap produce and can offer good prices to producers (because the middle-man is cut out). You might have something like that where you live.
- linuxftw 7y ago
  Migrant labor, agricultural subsidies, petro-chemical subsidies, and transportation subsidies (socialized roads) have resulted in the current state of affairs. The rural poor in the US still grow much of their own food. Even the not-so-poor. City dwellers need this super cheap, industrialized food, not the rest of us.
- SmellyGeekBoy 7y ago
  Tomatoes are pretty effortless to grow and you don't need to eat homegrown exclusively to make a difference.
  - GuB-42 7y ago
    I grow my tomatoes and it is definitely not effortless. You need to plant the seeds in little pots, keep them in a sunlit but protected area, plant and support them, water them regularly. You also need a patch of land. None of that is a big deal, but considering how cheap commercial tomatoes are, it doesn't make economic sense for most people. Another thing to consider is that tomatoes are seasonal. You won't have more than 3 months of natural homegrown tomatoes a year. Is it worth it? IMHO, totally. Tomatoes are one of these products where homegrown is much better than the usual commercial varieties. But if all you want are good tomatoes, and don't enjoy the process, there are probably other, more economical ways of getting them.
petulla 7y ago
Have you blogged on this/on your favorite recipes? Would read.
- spodek 7y ago
  Here's a post on how I make my stews: http://joshuaspodek.com/my-famous-no-packaging-vegetable-stew-formula-take-1 http://joshuaspodek.com/my-famous-no-packaging-vegetable-ste... Here's a video of me making it (to manage expectations, I didn't make it to entertain, just to document): http://joshuaspodek.com/20-minute-vegetable-stew http://joshuaspodek.com/20-minute-vegetable-stew If you're near Manhattan, contact me and invite yourself over. I host about 20 lunches and dinners a month, partly to share how to do it. I've also done corporate events, for example last Earth Day at Lululemon's flagship store on 5th Avenue.
fortran77 7y ago
One very simple thing people can do that costs no money and they can keep buying exactly the same products they do now -- just less of it -- is stop overeating. https://www.treehugger.com/health/overeating-terrible-planet.html https://www.treehugger.com/health/overeating-terrible-planet... As for industrial food, and how it got to be, I strongly recommend this book by Aaron Bobrow-Strain https://www.amazon.com/White-Bread-Social-History-Store-Bought/dp/1511383321 https://www.amazon.com/White-Bread-Social-History-Store-Boug...
papreclip 7y ago
In my experience, people who talk like this will gush about how a handful of seeds or a kale salad is more delicious than a cheeseburger or a burrito, which of course taste unnatural and disgusting. It's like talking to a breatharian
- spodek 7y ago
  Sorry to hear your preconceptions. Here are reviews on my famous no-packaging vegetable stews: http://joshuaspodek.com/food-world-reviews http://joshuaspodek.com/food-world-reviews Guests have included titans of industry, famous authors, podcasters, a Nobel laureate, and many among my podcast guests.
JohnFen 7y ago
> People also keep suggesting I start a restaurant since the food tastes so good and is so easy to make. I'm waiting to meet the right person with experience starting restaurants. I know a couple of successful restaurateurs in my area. It's an incredibly difficult business to be in. I would suggest that nobody opens a restaurant unless it's truly their love.

by spodek 7y ago

close04 7y ago

Read your blog post and there are 2 remarks I'd like to make: > You just go to the store, buy food without packaging, and don’t buy food with packaging. This is kind of a truism and a circular reference. You avoid food packaging by not buying food with packaging. I don't have the option of buying any fluid dairy product (or anything fluid more or less) in anything but a carton or plastic bottle/cup. And that's just an example, many other items simply don't come in a non-packaged form, or it's lower quality when bought in bulk, even if it's cheaper. If it's cheaper and better I think it's a no-brainer that people would go for it. > the farm I get most of my summer and fall vegetables from [...] how much more flavor they have than what stores sell It's great if you have this option of buying from a farm but it's not a sustainable one for most. In the countries that could make the biggest difference with food packaging very few have no access to such a farm. And the supply of "wholesome, farm grown, bio" food is limited. Either the price would skyrocket due to the huge demand, or they would be less "wholesome" and more "supermarket". It's the same as when you hear that "everybody should buy second had stuff because it helps the environment and it's cheaper". There's a bit of hidden paradox in there.

lotsofpulp 7y ago
I don’t see how one can consume dairy and meat without packaging. And given the choice between not eating dairy and death, I would choose death.
- mbrock 7y ago
  I get butter, cheese, and sour cream at a local zero waste shop. We don't use dairy milk though, just nut milk and oat milk where we buy the nuts and oats in bulk and blend with water. https://treadingmyownpath.com/2017/07/13/plastic-free-milk-yoghurt-cheese/ https://treadingmyownpath.com/2017/07/13/plastic-free-milk-y... https://www.reddit.com/r/ZeroWaste/comments/62kvzi/dairy_products/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ZeroWaste/comments/62kvzi/dairy_pro...
  - close04 7y ago
    The point was to get rid of packaging entirely, not just replace plastic packaging with paper or glass. I can't really see how I can hygienically procure and transport many basic food products and types without packaging. This being said I think using and reusing more durable packaging should be the way forward. Glass in particular is one type that can be reused instead of recycled. I grew up with glass bottles (unbranded 0.5l and 1l) being reused and you'd trade an empty one in to get a full one. Most of the liquid stuff we had around the house was stored in these identical glass bottles instead of 100 different sizes and shapes of bottles.
    - mbrock 7y ago
      I mean, I just bring some bags to the store and fill them up! And bottles for laundry detergent, oils, etc. Several of these zero waste shops opened in my city (an eastern European capital) the past couple of years.
    - shantly 7y ago
      A glass bottle you return isn’t “cheating” any more than bringing your own bag, IMO.

wruza 7y ago

That’s interesting. My grandma (who is also a self-growing plantation lady) always complains that store tomatoes are tasteless. But that is offset by the price. She works all day growing them, and stores try to sell good vegetables sometimes, but prices are putting buyers off. “Chinese chemical synthetics” are much cheaper and affordable. I tried to calculate, out of pure scientific interest, and with my income I could not allocate enough time to not get serious net negative, even if was interested in shoveling and taste. Maybe it’s a local thing. How much time and money do you spend on growing these?

dmos62 7y ago
I've lived in some places where you can find local-farmer markets, where you can get high quality locally sourced vegetables, fruit, diary, eggs, fish, etc. In some places they're cheaper than store-bought, in others they're competitively priced or more expensive. My point being that you don't always have to choose between the extremes of storebought v. self-grown. Part of my family participates in a local collective that buys local produce directly from producers in bulk, and in such a way they get cheap produce and can offer good prices to producers (because the middle-man is cut out). You might have something like that where you live.
linuxftw 7y ago
Migrant labor, agricultural subsidies, petro-chemical subsidies, and transportation subsidies (socialized roads) have resulted in the current state of affairs. The rural poor in the US still grow much of their own food. Even the not-so-poor. City dwellers need this super cheap, industrialized food, not the rest of us.
SmellyGeekBoy 7y ago
Tomatoes are pretty effortless to grow and you don't need to eat homegrown exclusively to make a difference.
- GuB-42 7y ago
  I grow my tomatoes and it is definitely not effortless. You need to plant the seeds in little pots, keep them in a sunlit but protected area, plant and support them, water them regularly. You also need a patch of land. None of that is a big deal, but considering how cheap commercial tomatoes are, it doesn't make economic sense for most people. Another thing to consider is that tomatoes are seasonal. You won't have more than 3 months of natural homegrown tomatoes a year. Is it worth it? IMHO, totally. Tomatoes are one of these products where homegrown is much better than the usual commercial varieties. But if all you want are good tomatoes, and don't enjoy the process, there are probably other, more economical ways of getting them.

petulla 7y ago

Have you blogged on this/on your favorite recipes? Would read.

spodek 7y ago
Here's a post on how I make my stews: http://joshuaspodek.com/my-famous-no-packaging-vegetable-stew-formula-take-1 http://joshuaspodek.com/my-famous-no-packaging-vegetable-ste... Here's a video of me making it (to manage expectations, I didn't make it to entertain, just to document): http://joshuaspodek.com/20-minute-vegetable-stew http://joshuaspodek.com/20-minute-vegetable-stew If you're near Manhattan, contact me and invite yourself over. I host about 20 lunches and dinners a month, partly to share how to do it. I've also done corporate events, for example last Earth Day at Lululemon's flagship store on 5th Avenue.

fortran77 7y ago

One very simple thing people can do that costs no money and they can keep buying exactly the same products they do now -- just less of it -- is stop overeating. https://www.treehugger.com/health/overeating-terrible-planet.html https://www.treehugger.com/health/overeating-terrible-planet... As for industrial food, and how it got to be, I strongly recommend this book by Aaron Bobrow-Strain https://www.amazon.com/White-Bread-Social-History-Store-Bought/dp/1511383321 https://www.amazon.com/White-Bread-Social-History-Store-Boug...

papreclip 7y ago

In my experience, people who talk like this will gush about how a handful of seeds or a kale salad is more delicious than a cheeseburger or a burrito, which of course taste unnatural and disgusting. It's like talking to a breatharian

spodek 7y ago
Sorry to hear your preconceptions. Here are reviews on my famous no-packaging vegetable stews: http://joshuaspodek.com/food-world-reviews http://joshuaspodek.com/food-world-reviews Guests have included titans of industry, famous authors, podcasters, a Nobel laureate, and many among my podcast guests.

JohnFen 7y ago

> People also keep suggesting I start a restaurant since the food tastes so good and is so easy to make. I'm waiting to meet the right person with experience starting restaurants. I know a couple of successful restaurateurs in my area. It's an incredibly difficult business to be in. I would suggest that nobody opens a restaurant unless it's truly their love.