6 ms·

First evidence found of tool use by seabirds

127 points by dnetesn 7y ago

joehaaa 7y ago
someone please upvote this
catalogia 7y ago
I expected this to be about sea gulls. I think they're smarter than most people give them credit for; I've seen them open zippered bags on the beach, and they have a sort of fearless approach to humans that reminds me of the way crows behave around humans. Apparently tool use has been observed in some gulls so maybe the the article title is overstating the matter a little (unless gulls aren't considered seabirds?): https://bioone.org/journals/waterbirds/volume-29/issue-2/1524-4695(2006)29%5b233%3aTICABB%5d2.0.CO%3b2/Tool-use-in-Charadrii--Active-Bait-Fishing-by-a/10.1675/1524-4695(2006)29[233:TICABB]2.0.CO;2.short https://bioone.org/journals/waterbirds/volume-29/issue-2/152...
- nvrspyx 7y ago
  The title is definitely overstating and the linked journal article is more informative. IMO, the article title should have been: ____ First evidence found of body-care-related tool use by seabirds ____
haihaibye 7y ago
Why aren't nests considered tools?
- caconym_ 7y ago
  From a quick Googling it looks like birds' nest-building techniques can differ by individual and can be learned/shared among social peers. So, yeah, it seems like they maybe should be classified as tools. Contrast this with "fixed action patterns" like the way cats try to bury their shit and piss even to the point of pawing at the smooth floor next to their litterboxes. Superficially it seems like a fairly sophisticated behavior, but it's really a hardwired compulsion. Nest-building might be somewhere in the middle. I don't know if a bird raised with zero socialization is typically capable of building a nest.
  - eloff 7y ago
    Ants are interesting in that their use of agriculture predates humans. Somewhat humbling to think that ants with their insignificant insect brains had that figured out for millions of years before our ancestors did.
    - matt-attack 7y ago
      Who’s to say humans didn’t copy the ants? I’ve always been fascinated by what I call “uninventable inventions”. These are things we use commonly but never had the chance to invent ourselves due to their common occurrence in nature. Examples are: the fluid carrying tube (since arteries would easily be observed in killed animals), the sphere (think eye balls), or wings to fly with (i.e. the general shape of a modern jetliner).
      - kortilla 7y ago
        Interestingly the wings on a jetliner (and man-made planes in general) don’t really look anything like wings on birds or insects nor do they function in the same way. In fact, one of the big breakthroughs in flight was to stop trying to make them like birds. Planes fly like birds in the same way that submarines swim like fish, i.e. they don’t.
        Retric 7y ago
        Many aspects are. A rounded leading edge cross-section and a sharp trailing edge cross-section. Upward slopping Dihedral and rear slopping wing. Tail feathers and aircraft’s tails. Winglets are similar to features on many bird species, though this is most obvious during down flapping.
        matt-attack 7y ago
        You might be right to 2nd order, but the fact is it's no accident that these two objects look so similar: https://imgur.com/a/dKLQQ2j https://imgur.com/a/dKLQQ2j
- catalogia 7y ago
  Maybe they should, but considering nests as such probably make it harder to find animals that don't use tools than those that do. Even many species of fish create nests. Also, I wonder where you'd draw the line. Are borrows a kind of nest? That seems fair, but then are earth worms creating nests when they burrow? Are they using the earth itself as a tool, to conceal themselves from hungry birds? Probably not, that seems like a stretch.. but ants surely create nests. There is also the matter of animals that don't dig their own burrows but do use those dug by other animals. Snakes do this a lot I think, should that be considered tool use? Are the parasitic mites that inhabit unhealthy bee nests using tools? Then there is the matter of animals that create structures using material their own body creates. Are web weaving spiders tool users? What about snails? Or crabs that live in deceased snail shells?
  - oneeyedpigeon 7y ago
    > Even many species of fish create nests. There are certainly examples of fish using tools in more 'sophisticated' ways than mere nest-building: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnOYpuKV4H4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnOYpuKV4H4
  - alistairSH 7y ago
    There's a line there somewhere. But, I'm not sure which side bird nest building falls. Many birds aren't just making a dirt hole, they're taking whatever material is at hand and "crafting" a well-shaped structure. String, twigs, leaves, hair, etc.
    - catalogia 7y ago
      It does seem a bit odd to me that gorillas, chimpanzees and orangutans build nests in trees, yet the most often cited example of their tool use is fishing for termites with twigs. As far as fashioning things from sticks goes, fishing for termites hardly seems like the pinnacle of their technology. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nest-building_in_primates#In_hominid_apes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nest-building_in_primates#In_h...
    - pretzell 7y ago
- mattigames 7y ago
  I think is clear the title is implying adaptive tool use, the bird had a specific need and found a specific tool for it, in the other hand nests are behaviors deeply integrated in the genes of a species seen in almost every member of it even when it doesn't make any sense, that's why 'pet' beavers try to irrationally build dams in places without water.
- everdev 7y ago
  I'd consider a nest a structure rather than a tool. A mechanical tool usually implies some sort of motion to produce a desired effect.
- imvetri 7y ago
  Good question which they should question themselves.
  - haihaibye 7y ago
    It is difficult to get a scientist to understand something when his claim of novelty depends on his not understanding it.
acvny 7y ago
This is hilarious. If you watch the video you could see that the bird picked up that stick and then needed to scratch its belly, but it didn't want to throw the nice stick either. This looks ... natural :)
- ianai 7y ago
  Indeed. Could also just be grooming as I’m not sure the bird would feel that under his thick feathers. Pretty sure a researcher would conclude my cat uses me as a very sophisticated tool. I’m pretty responsive to his demands and the guy steers me around with his body all day (standing in my way, ankle rubs, knocking things down, etc)
29athrowaway 7y ago
Crows use cars to crack nuts. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGPGknpq3e0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGPGknpq3e0
JordanFarmer 7y ago
Gulls drop oysters from up high to break them open (using the rock as a tool). Aren't they seabirds too?
Nychtelios 7y ago
First evidence? First? Really?

127 points by dnetesn 7y ago

someone please upvote this

I expected this to be about sea gulls. I think they're smarter than most people give them credit for; I've seen them open zippered bags on the beach, and they have a sort of fearless approach to humans that reminds me of the way crows behave around humans. Apparently tool use has been observed in some gulls so maybe the the article title is overstating the matter a little (unless gulls aren't considered seabirds?): https://bioone.org/journals/waterbirds/volume-29/issue-2/1524-4695(2006)29%5b233%3aTICABB%5d2.0.CO%3b2/Tool-use-in-Charadrii--Active-Bait-Fishing-by-a/10.1675/1524-4695(2006)29[233:TICABB]2.0.CO;2.short https://bioone.org/journals/waterbirds/volume-29/issue-2/152...

nvrspyx 7y ago
The title is definitely overstating and the linked journal article is more informative. IMO, the article title should have been: ____ First evidence found of body-care-related tool use by seabirds ____

haihaibye 7y ago

Why aren't nests considered tools?

caconym_ 7y ago
From a quick Googling it looks like birds' nest-building techniques can differ by individual and can be learned/shared among social peers. So, yeah, it seems like they maybe should be classified as tools. Contrast this with "fixed action patterns" like the way cats try to bury their shit and piss even to the point of pawing at the smooth floor next to their litterboxes. Superficially it seems like a fairly sophisticated behavior, but it's really a hardwired compulsion. Nest-building might be somewhere in the middle. I don't know if a bird raised with zero socialization is typically capable of building a nest.
- eloff 7y ago
  Ants are interesting in that their use of agriculture predates humans. Somewhat humbling to think that ants with their insignificant insect brains had that figured out for millions of years before our ancestors did.
  - matt-attack 7y ago
    Who’s to say humans didn’t copy the ants? I’ve always been fascinated by what I call “uninventable inventions”. These are things we use commonly but never had the chance to invent ourselves due to their common occurrence in nature. Examples are: the fluid carrying tube (since arteries would easily be observed in killed animals), the sphere (think eye balls), or wings to fly with (i.e. the general shape of a modern jetliner).
    - kortilla 7y ago
      Interestingly the wings on a jetliner (and man-made planes in general) don’t really look anything like wings on birds or insects nor do they function in the same way. In fact, one of the big breakthroughs in flight was to stop trying to make them like birds. Planes fly like birds in the same way that submarines swim like fish, i.e. they don’t.
      - Retric 7y ago
        Many aspects are. A rounded leading edge cross-section and a sharp trailing edge cross-section. Upward slopping Dihedral and rear slopping wing. Tail feathers and aircraft’s tails. Winglets are similar to features on many bird species, though this is most obvious during down flapping.
      - matt-attack 7y ago
        You might be right to 2nd order, but the fact is it's no accident that these two objects look so similar: https://imgur.com/a/dKLQQ2j https://imgur.com/a/dKLQQ2j
catalogia 7y ago
Maybe they should, but considering nests as such probably make it harder to find animals that don't use tools than those that do. Even many species of fish create nests. Also, I wonder where you'd draw the line. Are borrows a kind of nest? That seems fair, but then are earth worms creating nests when they burrow? Are they using the earth itself as a tool, to conceal themselves from hungry birds? Probably not, that seems like a stretch.. but ants surely create nests. There is also the matter of animals that don't dig their own burrows but do use those dug by other animals. Snakes do this a lot I think, should that be considered tool use? Are the parasitic mites that inhabit unhealthy bee nests using tools? Then there is the matter of animals that create structures using material their own body creates. Are web weaving spiders tool users? What about snails? Or crabs that live in deceased snail shells?
- oneeyedpigeon 7y ago
  > Even many species of fish create nests. There are certainly examples of fish using tools in more 'sophisticated' ways than mere nest-building: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnOYpuKV4H4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnOYpuKV4H4
- alistairSH 7y ago
  There's a line there somewhere. But, I'm not sure which side bird nest building falls. Many birds aren't just making a dirt hole, they're taking whatever material is at hand and "crafting" a well-shaped structure. String, twigs, leaves, hair, etc.
  - catalogia 7y ago
    It does seem a bit odd to me that gorillas, chimpanzees and orangutans build nests in trees, yet the most often cited example of their tool use is fishing for termites with twigs. As far as fashioning things from sticks goes, fishing for termites hardly seems like the pinnacle of their technology. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nest-building_in_primates#In_hominid_apes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nest-building_in_primates#In_h...
  - pretzell 7y ago
mattigames 7y ago
I think is clear the title is implying adaptive tool use, the bird had a specific need and found a specific tool for it, in the other hand nests are behaviors deeply integrated in the genes of a species seen in almost every member of it even when it doesn't make any sense, that's why 'pet' beavers try to irrationally build dams in places without water.
everdev 7y ago
I'd consider a nest a structure rather than a tool. A mechanical tool usually implies some sort of motion to produce a desired effect.
imvetri 7y ago
Good question which they should question themselves.
- haihaibye 7y ago
  It is difficult to get a scientist to understand something when his claim of novelty depends on his not understanding it.

acvny 7y ago

This is hilarious. If you watch the video you could see that the bird picked up that stick and then needed to scratch its belly, but it didn't want to throw the nice stick either. This looks ... natural :)

ianai 7y ago
Indeed. Could also just be grooming as I’m not sure the bird would feel that under his thick feathers. Pretty sure a researcher would conclude my cat uses me as a very sophisticated tool. I’m pretty responsive to his demands and the guy steers me around with his body all day (standing in my way, ankle rubs, knocking things down, etc)

29athrowaway 7y ago

Crows use cars to crack nuts. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGPGknpq3e0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGPGknpq3e0

JordanFarmer 7y ago

Gulls drop oysters from up high to break them open (using the rock as a tool). Aren't they seabirds too?

Nychtelios 7y ago

First evidence? First? Really?