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Corellium may have developed an excellent product technically, and they might be selling a useful service, but they still infringed Apple's intellectual propert

Corellium may have developed an excellent product technically, and they might be selling a useful service, but they still infringed Apple's intellectual property. It's up to Apple to decide if they want to make a virtualized iOS available for security researchers on the web.

saagarjha 7y ago
How exactly did they infringe on Apple’s property? Does VirtualBox get in trouble if you run pirated Windows on it?
- bauerd 7y ago
  They run virtualised iOS for you without having licensed it from Apple.
  - ChrisMarshallNY 7y ago
    From what I can tell, Corellium heavily modifies iOS. Parallels and whatnot run unmodified Mac (not i)OS. That’s pretty hairy stuff. Technically cool, but definitely sketchy.
    - willstrafach 7y ago
      > Corellium heavily modifies iOS. Parallels and whatnot run unmodified Mac (not i)OS. Not quite. The optional "modifications" are pretty much the small byte patches in the kernel and bootloader which are normally done in a jailbreak. It is similar to how "Parallels Tools" is automatically loaded; Not entirely required, but makes the experience better.
- bradknowles 7y ago
  If that’s the only way you can pirate Windows, then I think Microsoft would definitely go after them.
  - saagarjha 7y ago
    Corellium isn’t really a piracy product. Think of it like an emulator that you can load ROMs into.
- ryanlol 7y ago
  Since when does VirtualBox crack Windows for you?
  - saagarjha 7y ago
    This isn’t really “cracking” iOS, getting it to boot is more providing it with the hardware and services it needs to start up. Some people have gotten quite far just by patching qemu.
    - ryanlol 7y ago
      Did you read the Apple filing? They specifically claim that corellium patches their licensing mechanisms. Perhaps they’re wrong, but I doubt that they’d lie.
  - onei 7y ago
    If you can get a working ISO, virtualbox will run it. Hardware doesn't tend to care what's running on it, virtualized hardware is no different.
    - ryanlol 7y ago
      What is your point?
- zaphirplane 7y ago
  Are they selling an iOS virtualization software or a virtual IOS instance ? If the later then the analogy isn’t accurate if the former then I suppose you are correct (if the compatibility laws override the iOS license) Edit people in the rest of the thread are saying that a modified iOS is provided by them
  - saagarjha 7y ago
    As far as I know, Corellium has hardware to boot an iOS image you provide and will provide you access to it. Some commenters have mentioned that Corellium downloads the image for you but I’m currently weighing it against hearsay from people who used it previously.
    - benmmurphy 7y ago
      I’ve used it and at the time it would download the IPSW for you. I’m not sure if there was an option to use your own IPSWs. Also, it is important to note that they would charge you for different features so being able to use your own IPSWs could circumvent this pricing model. Of course their boot loader could enforce Apple signing policy but then it would only be able to run Apple code.
  - kelnos 7y ago
    I haven't read Apple's complaint, but from TFA, it doesn't appear that Corellium is being sued for distributing an unauthorized derivative work of iOS, but for violating the DMCA's prohibition against breaking digital locks. So whether or not they're unlawfully redistributing iOS is irrelevant to the case. The DMCA crap is the interesting bit. And if Apple decides to sue for simple copyright infringement, Corellium could turn their product into bring-your-own-IPSW, with instructions/patches/whatever to modify the image so it'll run on their emulator.
    - jakeashacks 7y ago
      Well jailbreaking is also breaking digital locks. As for the copyright thing, yes, they could ask the user to upload the ipsw (but still i don't see the difference between user doing it and them doing it, it'll end up in the same place), but there would be no need for modification instructions. Modifications are done dynamically, they're not pre-applied into a custom ipsw.
Mirioron 7y ago
It still baffles me how so many technical people in the US use Apple products despite all of this.
- lern_too_spel 7y ago
  False beliefs about privacy, security, and speed combined with outdated beliefs about usability.

saagarjha 7y ago

How exactly did they infringe on Apple’s property? Does VirtualBox get in trouble if you run pirated Windows on it?

bauerd 7y ago
They run virtualised iOS for you without having licensed it from Apple.
- ChrisMarshallNY 7y ago
  From what I can tell, Corellium heavily modifies iOS. Parallels and whatnot run unmodified Mac (not i)OS. That’s pretty hairy stuff. Technically cool, but definitely sketchy.
  - willstrafach 7y ago
    > Corellium heavily modifies iOS. Parallels and whatnot run unmodified Mac (not i)OS. Not quite. The optional "modifications" are pretty much the small byte patches in the kernel and bootloader which are normally done in a jailbreak. It is similar to how "Parallels Tools" is automatically loaded; Not entirely required, but makes the experience better.
bradknowles 7y ago
If that’s the only way you can pirate Windows, then I think Microsoft would definitely go after them.
- saagarjha 7y ago
  Corellium isn’t really a piracy product. Think of it like an emulator that you can load ROMs into.
ryanlol 7y ago
Since when does VirtualBox crack Windows for you?
- saagarjha 7y ago
  This isn’t really “cracking” iOS, getting it to boot is more providing it with the hardware and services it needs to start up. Some people have gotten quite far just by patching qemu.
  - ryanlol 7y ago
    Did you read the Apple filing? They specifically claim that corellium patches their licensing mechanisms. Perhaps they’re wrong, but I doubt that they’d lie.
- onei 7y ago
  If you can get a working ISO, virtualbox will run it. Hardware doesn't tend to care what's running on it, virtualized hardware is no different.
  - ryanlol 7y ago
    What is your point?
zaphirplane 7y ago
Are they selling an iOS virtualization software or a virtual IOS instance ? If the later then the analogy isn’t accurate if the former then I suppose you are correct (if the compatibility laws override the iOS license) Edit people in the rest of the thread are saying that a modified iOS is provided by them
- saagarjha 7y ago
  As far as I know, Corellium has hardware to boot an iOS image you provide and will provide you access to it. Some commenters have mentioned that Corellium downloads the image for you but I’m currently weighing it against hearsay from people who used it previously.
  - benmmurphy 7y ago
    I’ve used it and at the time it would download the IPSW for you. I’m not sure if there was an option to use your own IPSWs. Also, it is important to note that they would charge you for different features so being able to use your own IPSWs could circumvent this pricing model. Of course their boot loader could enforce Apple signing policy but then it would only be able to run Apple code.
- kelnos 7y ago
  I haven't read Apple's complaint, but from TFA, it doesn't appear that Corellium is being sued for distributing an unauthorized derivative work of iOS, but for violating the DMCA's prohibition against breaking digital locks. So whether or not they're unlawfully redistributing iOS is irrelevant to the case. The DMCA crap is the interesting bit. And if Apple decides to sue for simple copyright infringement, Corellium could turn their product into bring-your-own-IPSW, with instructions/patches/whatever to modify the image so it'll run on their emulator.
  - jakeashacks 7y ago
    Well jailbreaking is also breaking digital locks. As for the copyright thing, yes, they could ask the user to upload the ipsw (but still i don't see the difference between user doing it and them doing it, it'll end up in the same place), but there would be no need for modification instructions. Modifications are done dynamically, they're not pre-applied into a custom ipsw.

Mirioron 7y ago

It still baffles me how so many technical people in the US use Apple products despite all of this.

lern_too_spel 7y ago
False beliefs about privacy, security, and speed combined with outdated beliefs about usability.