4 ms·

Yes no doubt they’ve found it safe when allowing for the effects to fully wear off and at a certain dosage. Chemicals of this class are similar in structure to

Yes no doubt they’ve found it safe when allowing for the effects to fully wear off and at a certain dosage. Chemicals of this class are similar in structure to serotonin itself and do the opposite of SSRIs. This would mean the therapy is meant to go straight through problems regarding depression not simply make one happier. Generally speaking psylocibin is more prone to culminate in a really bad trip than delysid if the participant doesn’t have their mind settled! This is also dependent on how it’s isolated and from what. Oregon azurescens raised in wood chips is much more mellow and yet stronger than other varieties for example. Migraines are an extremely good use case but factors of depression can vary so wildly I’m not really convinced it would be a silver bullet. If nothing else works then maybe it would do the trick. Don’t play with magic unless you want to be tricked.

pmoriarty 7y ago
"Generally speaking psylocibin is more prone to culminate in a really bad trip than delysid if the participant doesn’t have their mind settled" One of the most interesting interviews about psychedelics that I've heard is one with Stanislav Grof, who personally supervised over 4,500 LSD sessions throughout his life (many of them during his research in to its effects, back when LSD was legal) and at about 1 hour and 56 minutes in to the interview he said: "If somebody has a bad trip that means they are dealing with a difficult aspect of their unconscious and when it's coming up, it's coming up for healing... people can benefit from bad trips. I saw many of those situations where people experience what they would be hospitalized for in the psychedelic sessions, and if we stayed with it, it would actually be a major healing, a major transformation."[1] I also found in my own experience that my bad trips were the ones that I learned the most from and the ones that I found the most beneficial, because they would force me to face my demons and other major issues that I would avoid facing in my sober state of consciousness. Interestingly, the study this HN post links to seems to refer to something like this: "Recent work has sought to develop and validate a measure that is sensitive to difficult or challenging psychedelic experiences (Barrett et al., 2016; Carbonaro et al., 2016) and there is some evidence that the intensity of such experiences is predictive of positive long-term outcomes, whereas the duration of struggle is predictive of negative outcomes (Carbonaro et al., 2016). This is presumably because the successful resolution of conflict brings with it, insight and relief, whereas the failure to breakthrough perpetuates suffering." My impression from listening to and reading many interviews with veteran psychedelic researchers (who did studies with pretty massive doses of psychedelics back in the 60's) is that they seem to believe that an inability to "break through" was due to having too low a dose, and I wonder if that's the case in the unresolved difficult experiences this study refers to. On the other hand, too high a dose of psychedelics can result in post-trip amnesia (and current psychedlic researchers seem to be erring on the side of caution and give moderate doses). So there's probably some good middle ground. [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mdYUmvTeig https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mdYUmvTeig
- bordercases 7y ago
  My bad trips made me learn to stop tripping. But my good trips made me learn a whole lot more about what might have been possible for myself and my social anxiety after I stopped. I'm still learning lessons related to those insights but compared to the confidence I had on a trip versus the confidence I have now I say I'm 70-80% at that level.
  - o-__-o 7y ago
    Just want to point out you are taking the chemical at recreational doses and not therapeutic doses. This is why a professional administrating the drug is key. Look at it this way, Zoloft may give you a bad experience but not the same bad experience at 5mg vs 100mg. You can recognize the bad experience and work towards something else at 5mg vs 100mg (or replace with your favorite drug/dose) where you may end up in an outpatient hospital.
    - bordercases 7y ago
      The point I'm trying to make is that for all the risks I was taking none of the outcomes were psychologically unrecoverable or fatal. Using the word "bad" was just pointing to the class of experiences that people on the psych might consider, "not pleasant", but "not pleasant" doesn't mean "not valuable". Quite the opposite, I learned from basically every experience both through its intrinsic and extrinsic qualities. Giving psychedelics the psychiatric treatment and connoting that there are hard distinctions between "recreational" and "therapeutic" doses for some of these drugs fundamentally misunderstands them. I had therapeutic effects from "recreational" doses.
      - o-__-o 7y ago
        You can say the exact same thing for Zoloft. If you took a single 100mg dose you will notice the effects. But the line that crosses therapeutic to recreational (yes SSRIs are abused recreationally but are very short lived) is somewhere between 0 and 100mg and differs based on your biological makeup. Clinical trials and reports from prescribing psychiatrists helps find that hard distinction..

pmoriarty 7y ago

"Generally speaking psylocibin is more prone to culminate in a really bad trip than delysid if the participant doesn’t have their mind settled" One of the most interesting interviews about psychedelics that I've heard is one with Stanislav Grof, who personally supervised over 4,500 LSD sessions throughout his life (many of them during his research in to its effects, back when LSD was legal) and at about 1 hour and 56 minutes in to the interview he said: "If somebody has a bad trip that means they are dealing with a difficult aspect of their unconscious and when it's coming up, it's coming up for healing... people can benefit from bad trips. I saw many of those situations where people experience what they would be hospitalized for in the psychedelic sessions, and if we stayed with it, it would actually be a major healing, a major transformation."[1] I also found in my own experience that my bad trips were the ones that I learned the most from and the ones that I found the most beneficial, because they would force me to face my demons and other major issues that I would avoid facing in my sober state of consciousness. Interestingly, the study this HN post links to seems to refer to something like this: "Recent work has sought to develop and validate a measure that is sensitive to difficult or challenging psychedelic experiences (Barrett et al., 2016; Carbonaro et al., 2016) and there is some evidence that the intensity of such experiences is predictive of positive long-term outcomes, whereas the duration of struggle is predictive of negative outcomes (Carbonaro et al., 2016). This is presumably because the successful resolution of conflict brings with it, insight and relief, whereas the failure to breakthrough perpetuates suffering." My impression from listening to and reading many interviews with veteran psychedelic researchers (who did studies with pretty massive doses of psychedelics back in the 60's) is that they seem to believe that an inability to "break through" was due to having too low a dose, and I wonder if that's the case in the unresolved difficult experiences this study refers to. On the other hand, too high a dose of psychedelics can result in post-trip amnesia (and current psychedlic researchers seem to be erring on the side of caution and give moderate doses). So there's probably some good middle ground. [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mdYUmvTeig https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mdYUmvTeig

bordercases 7y ago
My bad trips made me learn to stop tripping. But my good trips made me learn a whole lot more about what might have been possible for myself and my social anxiety after I stopped. I'm still learning lessons related to those insights but compared to the confidence I had on a trip versus the confidence I have now I say I'm 70-80% at that level.
- o-__-o 7y ago
  Just want to point out you are taking the chemical at recreational doses and not therapeutic doses. This is why a professional administrating the drug is key. Look at it this way, Zoloft may give you a bad experience but not the same bad experience at 5mg vs 100mg. You can recognize the bad experience and work towards something else at 5mg vs 100mg (or replace with your favorite drug/dose) where you may end up in an outpatient hospital.
  - bordercases 7y ago
    The point I'm trying to make is that for all the risks I was taking none of the outcomes were psychologically unrecoverable or fatal. Using the word "bad" was just pointing to the class of experiences that people on the psych might consider, "not pleasant", but "not pleasant" doesn't mean "not valuable". Quite the opposite, I learned from basically every experience both through its intrinsic and extrinsic qualities. Giving psychedelics the psychiatric treatment and connoting that there are hard distinctions between "recreational" and "therapeutic" doses for some of these drugs fundamentally misunderstands them. I had therapeutic effects from "recreational" doses.
    - o-__-o 7y ago
      You can say the exact same thing for Zoloft. If you took a single 100mg dose you will notice the effects. But the line that crosses therapeutic to recreational (yes SSRIs are abused recreationally but are very short lived) is somewhere between 0 and 100mg and differs based on your biological makeup. Clinical trials and reports from prescribing psychiatrists helps find that hard distinction..