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It’s interesting that as a corporation one can do things that would otherwise be illegal as an individual. It’s also interesting that governments are willing to

It’s interesting that as a corporation one can do things that would otherwise be illegal as an individual. It’s also interesting that governments are willing to use these services which probably are illegal.

o-__-o 7y ago
>It’s interesting that as a corporation one can do things that would otherwise be illegal as an individual. Can you elaborate on this one more? A corporation that does illegal things cannot be criminally prosecuted, but if a member or director authorizes criminal activity then the government can pierce the corporate veil and prosecute the individual(s) directly. Example: eCorp directors have a grudge against xCorp's cleaning lady so they hire a hitman and pay for her death. the police would arrest the directors and any parties involved and they will seize both personal and business assets related to the crime. Cleaning lady's family hires a lawyer and sues eCorp and each director personally for damages. eCorp loses and pays gobs of money. each director loses and pays whatever gobs of money they have left. Ergo, a corporation did something that was illegal (conspired and then paid for a killing) which left them civilly liable. Then the corporate veil was pierced and all of the guilty were found and charged. The government wouldn't use this service because it is illegal. If you are making an overly general and vague comment on the legality of stingrays.. there is nothing illegal about hosting a BSS/LTE station with Voip and SMS integration and logging all of the MACs of local phones as they connect. The secrecy comes from the police not wanting their methods coming out in legal texts for public knowledge.
- rubyfan 7y ago
  I was specifically referring to this case. To hack a phone or account is generally an illegal activity. The government seems not even interested in piercing the veil on this type of activity which is the issue I’m bringing up. I’m not entirely sure why you’re mentioning stingrays and IANAL but what you describe sounds illegal under 18 U.S. Code § 2511[1]. But again for some reason a corporation is making these devices and selling them (also illegal under §2512[2]). I presume they are selling to law enforcement and pseudo law enforcement for use where a wiretap is not obtained (otherwise they can just lean on the carrier who is legally obliged) which would seem illegal under ECPA [3] even with its problems. There’s a whole section of EU law that covers man in the middle, hacking, data protection, etc. that would also make this specific case cut and dry. A government agency crying that Facebook notified an account holder their account was hacked by their corporate contractor seems beyond the pale. Further that news agencies publish this story with a slant that Facebook or Apple have somehow enabled terrorists is shameful. We should be holding our governments accountable to follow the law and obtain warrants. In the US all the corporate support they need is built into laws like CALEA and USA PATRIOT Act, the least our governments can do is follow the laws we entrust them to protect. [1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2511 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2511 [2] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2512 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2512 [3] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_Communications_Privacy_Act https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_Communications_Pr...

o-__-o 7y ago

>It’s interesting that as a corporation one can do things that would otherwise be illegal as an individual. Can you elaborate on this one more? A corporation that does illegal things cannot be criminally prosecuted, but if a member or director authorizes criminal activity then the government can pierce the corporate veil and prosecute the individual(s) directly. Example: eCorp directors have a grudge against xCorp's cleaning lady so they hire a hitman and pay for her death. the police would arrest the directors and any parties involved and they will seize both personal and business assets related to the crime. Cleaning lady's family hires a lawyer and sues eCorp and each director personally for damages. eCorp loses and pays gobs of money. each director loses and pays whatever gobs of money they have left. Ergo, a corporation did something that was illegal (conspired and then paid for a killing) which left them civilly liable. Then the corporate veil was pierced and all of the guilty were found and charged. The government wouldn't use this service because it is illegal. If you are making an overly general and vague comment on the legality of stingrays.. there is nothing illegal about hosting a BSS/LTE station with Voip and SMS integration and logging all of the MACs of local phones as they connect. The secrecy comes from the police not wanting their methods coming out in legal texts for public knowledge.

rubyfan 7y ago
I was specifically referring to this case. To hack a phone or account is generally an illegal activity. The government seems not even interested in piercing the veil on this type of activity which is the issue I’m bringing up. I’m not entirely sure why you’re mentioning stingrays and IANAL but what you describe sounds illegal under 18 U.S. Code § 2511[1]. But again for some reason a corporation is making these devices and selling them (also illegal under §2512[2]). I presume they are selling to law enforcement and pseudo law enforcement for use where a wiretap is not obtained (otherwise they can just lean on the carrier who is legally obliged) which would seem illegal under ECPA [3] even with its problems. There’s a whole section of EU law that covers man in the middle, hacking, data protection, etc. that would also make this specific case cut and dry. A government agency crying that Facebook notified an account holder their account was hacked by their corporate contractor seems beyond the pale. Further that news agencies publish this story with a slant that Facebook or Apple have somehow enabled terrorists is shameful. We should be holding our governments accountable to follow the law and obtain warrants. In the US all the corporate support they need is built into laws like CALEA and USA PATRIOT Act, the least our governments can do is follow the laws we entrust them to protect. [1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2511 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2511 [2] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2512 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2512 [3] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_Communications_Privacy_Act https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_Communications_Pr...