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A man just died in Oakland today trying to recover his laptop that was snatched from him in a Starbucks. http://nypost.com/2020/01/02/man-dies-after-trying-to-

by dotBen 7y ago

A man just died in Oakland today trying to recover his laptop that was snatched from him in a Starbucks. http://nypost.com/2020/01/02/man-dies-after-trying-to-stop-thief-who-stole-his-laptop-at-starbucks/ http://nypost.com/2020/01/02/man-dies-after-trying-to-stop-t... Definitely don't go running after your stolen laptop, let it go.

abstractbarista 7y ago
I'd definitely give chase. To me, it is worth dying for. Not because of the laptop, but out of principle for vigorously fighting these ridiculous crimes. We all need to collectively fight back against crime or it will be normal (as it is now).
- vorpalhex 7y ago
  Don't chase criminals because it's foolish. You are letting the opposition lead you into their plan where they control the setting. Be smart, be the one in control of the situation.
- lnanek2 7y ago
  Oakland's a bit of a special place. I have friends living there who have been robbed at gun point, for example, and if you go into a Subway the workers are often behind bulletproof glass because they've been held up so often. Chasing a crook in Oakland is just going to get you dead, not change anything there. Not smart.
  - Keverw 7y ago
    Wow, sounds like not a hot tourist spot probably then. Not sure why people would want to live there when safer and cheaper places in the US.
- 0kl 7y ago
  I’m just assuming the above is not in good faith, but for anyone else that might be persuaded: You being killed by a criminal over an iPhone or laptop is not going to change anything. Fund your police, vote to change laws enough that they’re spending their time on things that are relevant, and if you’re honestly willing to die for the rule of law, become a police officer. Otherwise your body will be one more on the list of “people that died for no reason.” It’s not tough, righteous, or whatever else to die for no reason - and even if it were, if you’re going to make a stand and sacrifice your life, make it over something more than a laptop.
  - vunie 7y ago
    > I’m just assuming the above is not in good faith Not GP, but your assumption is wrong. It's not about the laptop. It's about standing up for yourself and doing your part towards society. You obviously don't agree with this stance and that's fine, but it's not your place to dictate what values are worth standing up for and what aren't. I, like GP, fully intend to go after a thief. If he goes after my life, then I go after his. Either he gives up the laptop, or one of us gets killed. It's as simple as that.
    - elric 7y ago
      > It's as simple as that. Nothing is ever as simple as that. Not only is it a foolish, immoral and illegal, you've also just communicated murderous intent. Have fun spending 20-to-life in a cell because you thought ultraviolence would be a good way to do your part towards society. I've had more than my fair share of violent confrontations, and I assure you, no matter how well you think you are prepared, once the metallic taste of adrenaline hits you, all your plans and delusions of grandeur go out the window. A bit of violence can be acceptable. Murder over property is not.
      - vunie 7y ago
        > you've also just communicated murderous intent. No I have not. It's your bias that colored it that way. Reread my comment. I never said I want kill a thief for stealing. I simply stated that I will take back what is mine. If, and only if, the thief tries to kill me will I respond in kind. Again, it has nothing to do with grandeur and everything to d with doing what is right. I will take back what is mine, and threatening my life wont stop me.
        natmaka 7y ago
        I agree with the underlying principle, however force on force is always a dangerous proposition, especially when it's not planned. Even without weapons it can seriously hurt a bystander (you run into a weak or child, he falls down on concrete...), and all bets are off if a gun is drawn (especially in a crowded area).
- ineedasername 7y ago
  I'm not sure what makes laptop theft any more ridiculous than another crime, but "crime is bad and it should stop" isn't really an ideal that's advanced by getting shot or stabbed and killed.
  - perl4ever 7y ago
    Someone else resisting a criminal advances my ideal of not being a crime victim, no matter who gets shot or stabbed...so it's bewildering to me why people should say it's stupid. I mean, there's a word for people who slag off those who benefit them, and it is "ingrate".
    - yibg 7y ago
      Ideally we should all stand up to injustice, but maybe try to avoid senseless loss of life over trivial things. If nothing else consider the opportunity cost of not being able to standup later when it might really matter. Obvious loss of life is extreme and trivial things is subjective, but I think the point stands. There is a practical consideration to be made about what the risk profile is and what the degree of crime is. Clearly charging a man holding a loaded gun because he swiped some gum would be silly. Charging a man with a loaded gun because he’s about to shoot a kid, different set of equations.
      - perl4ever 7y ago
        "try to avoid senseless loss of life over trivial things" I do, thanks. I just think it's distasteful, dare I say boorish, to call other people's sacrifice "trivial" when it probably benefits me, even if slightly. I don't think we live in a world where armed robbers are categorized as gum-stealers and child-shooters and never the twain shall meet. Some people are suspicious of even non-criminals having or using guns, believe it or not. I'm not saying worship every vigilante as a hero, just accept that disproportionate reactions to antisocial behavior are never going to go away, are a fundamental part of human behavior, and can be stupid from an "economically rational person" perspective and beneficial to society, including you and me, some of the time. If you call something another person is willing to risk their life for "trivial", you really don't care about their life. It's transparently an insincere reaction to feeling badly about being passive.
- closeparen 7y ago
  That'll be a lonely hill to die on. We in California collectively decided that theft under $950 is not a big deal and should be fought less vigorously: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_California_Proposition_47 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_California_Proposition_47
  - tropo 7y ago
    That was a mistake. Criminals now very purposely run off with just shy of $950. Theft is way up in California. Meanwhile, in Texas you'd just shoot the laptop thief, either as soon as aware of the imminent theft or as the thief flees. It's fully supported by the law: https://lawofselfdefense.com/statute/texas-sec-9-42-deadly-force-to-protect-property/ https://lawofselfdefense.com/statute/texas-sec-9-42-deadly-f... Law enforcement in many communities would congratulate you for a job well done.
    - SmellyGeekBoy 7y ago
      Controversial opinion maybe, but I personally don't think anyone deserves to lose their life for stealing a laptop.
      - La1n 7y ago
        I don't think that's controversial, I think most of the world shared that opinion.
      - TheAdamAndChe 7y ago
        That's a great thing about having different states with different laws. Cultural norms around the country vary.
  - iso947 7y ago
    Rather than outsourcing the pros and cons of a bill to professionals you employ with time to research it (politicians), you ask millions of uninformed people vote on passing “The Safe Neighborhoods and Schools Act ”?

by dotBen 7y ago

abstractbarista 7y ago

I'd definitely give chase. To me, it is worth dying for. Not because of the laptop, but out of principle for vigorously fighting these ridiculous crimes. We all need to collectively fight back against crime or it will be normal (as it is now).

vorpalhex 7y ago
Don't chase criminals because it's foolish. You are letting the opposition lead you into their plan where they control the setting. Be smart, be the one in control of the situation.
lnanek2 7y ago
Oakland's a bit of a special place. I have friends living there who have been robbed at gun point, for example, and if you go into a Subway the workers are often behind bulletproof glass because they've been held up so often. Chasing a crook in Oakland is just going to get you dead, not change anything there. Not smart.
- Keverw 7y ago
  Wow, sounds like not a hot tourist spot probably then. Not sure why people would want to live there when safer and cheaper places in the US.
0kl 7y ago
I’m just assuming the above is not in good faith, but for anyone else that might be persuaded: You being killed by a criminal over an iPhone or laptop is not going to change anything. Fund your police, vote to change laws enough that they’re spending their time on things that are relevant, and if you’re honestly willing to die for the rule of law, become a police officer. Otherwise your body will be one more on the list of “people that died for no reason.” It’s not tough, righteous, or whatever else to die for no reason - and even if it were, if you’re going to make a stand and sacrifice your life, make it over something more than a laptop.
- vunie 7y ago
  > I’m just assuming the above is not in good faith Not GP, but your assumption is wrong. It's not about the laptop. It's about standing up for yourself and doing your part towards society. You obviously don't agree with this stance and that's fine, but it's not your place to dictate what values are worth standing up for and what aren't. I, like GP, fully intend to go after a thief. If he goes after my life, then I go after his. Either he gives up the laptop, or one of us gets killed. It's as simple as that.
  - elric 7y ago
    > It's as simple as that. Nothing is ever as simple as that. Not only is it a foolish, immoral and illegal, you've also just communicated murderous intent. Have fun spending 20-to-life in a cell because you thought ultraviolence would be a good way to do your part towards society. I've had more than my fair share of violent confrontations, and I assure you, no matter how well you think you are prepared, once the metallic taste of adrenaline hits you, all your plans and delusions of grandeur go out the window. A bit of violence can be acceptable. Murder over property is not.
    - vunie 7y ago
      > you've also just communicated murderous intent. No I have not. It's your bias that colored it that way. Reread my comment. I never said I want kill a thief for stealing. I simply stated that I will take back what is mine. If, and only if, the thief tries to kill me will I respond in kind. Again, it has nothing to do with grandeur and everything to d with doing what is right. I will take back what is mine, and threatening my life wont stop me.
      - natmaka 7y ago
        I agree with the underlying principle, however force on force is always a dangerous proposition, especially when it's not planned. Even without weapons it can seriously hurt a bystander (you run into a weak or child, he falls down on concrete...), and all bets are off if a gun is drawn (especially in a crowded area).
ineedasername 7y ago
I'm not sure what makes laptop theft any more ridiculous than another crime, but "crime is bad and it should stop" isn't really an ideal that's advanced by getting shot or stabbed and killed.
- perl4ever 7y ago
  Someone else resisting a criminal advances my ideal of not being a crime victim, no matter who gets shot or stabbed...so it's bewildering to me why people should say it's stupid. I mean, there's a word for people who slag off those who benefit them, and it is "ingrate".
  - yibg 7y ago
    Ideally we should all stand up to injustice, but maybe try to avoid senseless loss of life over trivial things. If nothing else consider the opportunity cost of not being able to standup later when it might really matter. Obvious loss of life is extreme and trivial things is subjective, but I think the point stands. There is a practical consideration to be made about what the risk profile is and what the degree of crime is. Clearly charging a man holding a loaded gun because he swiped some gum would be silly. Charging a man with a loaded gun because he’s about to shoot a kid, different set of equations.
    - perl4ever 7y ago
      "try to avoid senseless loss of life over trivial things" I do, thanks. I just think it's distasteful, dare I say boorish, to call other people's sacrifice "trivial" when it probably benefits me, even if slightly. I don't think we live in a world where armed robbers are categorized as gum-stealers and child-shooters and never the twain shall meet. Some people are suspicious of even non-criminals having or using guns, believe it or not. I'm not saying worship every vigilante as a hero, just accept that disproportionate reactions to antisocial behavior are never going to go away, are a fundamental part of human behavior, and can be stupid from an "economically rational person" perspective and beneficial to society, including you and me, some of the time. If you call something another person is willing to risk their life for "trivial", you really don't care about their life. It's transparently an insincere reaction to feeling badly about being passive.
closeparen 7y ago
That'll be a lonely hill to die on. We in California collectively decided that theft under $950 is not a big deal and should be fought less vigorously: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_California_Proposition_47 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_California_Proposition_47
- tropo 7y ago
  That was a mistake. Criminals now very purposely run off with just shy of $950. Theft is way up in California. Meanwhile, in Texas you'd just shoot the laptop thief, either as soon as aware of the imminent theft or as the thief flees. It's fully supported by the law: https://lawofselfdefense.com/statute/texas-sec-9-42-deadly-force-to-protect-property/ https://lawofselfdefense.com/statute/texas-sec-9-42-deadly-f... Law enforcement in many communities would congratulate you for a job well done.
  - SmellyGeekBoy 7y ago
    Controversial opinion maybe, but I personally don't think anyone deserves to lose their life for stealing a laptop.
    - La1n 7y ago
      I don't think that's controversial, I think most of the world shared that opinion.
    - TheAdamAndChe 7y ago
      That's a great thing about having different states with different laws. Cultural norms around the country vary.
- iso947 7y ago
  Rather than outsourcing the pros and cons of a bill to professionals you employ with time to research it (politicians), you ask millions of uninformed people vote on passing “The Safe Neighborhoods and Schools Act ”?