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I came here to post this very thing. When I was working downtown I decided to go to the library during my lunch break. To my surprise there was almost nobody in

I came here to post this very thing. When I was working downtown I decided to go to the library during my lunch break. To my surprise there was almost nobody in the library actually reading. However, there were people on every single computer workstation. Glancing over the screens I could see a variety of pornographic images, facebook and myspace pages, and youtube. The library is a great resource, but I was completely pissed off that my tax dollars go to support that.

JacobAldridge 16y ago
"but I was completely pissed off that my tax dollars go to support that." People who can't afford a few hundred dollars for their own computer and the monthly bill for internet access? If you're looking at porn in the library, it's because you can't do it anywhere else, not because you're abusing tax dollars. Would I like the poor, the disadvantaged, the isolated to be using the library resources my taxes pay for to advance their lives? Hell yeah. Am I going to begrudge them - let alone get pissed off about - them using it to do the things I can do on my phone, on my way to the well-paying job? Hell no.
- rbanffy 16y ago
  > ...using it to do the things I can do on my phone, on my way to the well-paying job You really shouldn't watch porn on your phone while you drive. ;-)
  - dhimes 16y ago
    Well, we're not allowed to text any more so what do they expect?
  - jarek 16y ago
    Maybe he's on a train. In a personal compartment.
    - JacobAldridge 16y ago
      Actually, I was referring to Facebook, Myspace and YouTube (from the parent comment) more than the porn, though it doesn't read like that! And I don't actually have a smartphone, so the only thing I can do with my phone on the Underground when going to work is ... tell the time.
- mberning 16y ago
  This is completely and utterly asinine. Not only does this inappropriate use cause a hostile environment for people that legitimately want to use the library, but it lowers the number of available workstations for legitimate use. Just imagine your grandmother or little sister going down to the library to do some research and being uncomfortable in this environment. Think they are going to go back? No, of course they won't. But they will continue to pay tax to fund it. I don't understand how anybody could be 'OK' with this gross misuse of public funds.
  - mileszs 16y ago
    Perhaps we should pay someone to decide what people are allowed to look at on those computers. Actually, that doesn't seem fair. Perhaps we should pay a committee to decide, and they can hand their decision to an IT department to implement. Well, I suppose adding another responsibility to the library's IT staff will mean we'll have to pay to add a position to the department so they're staffed well enough. There. Problem solved. Funds are no longer being misused. Right? Because this is the internet, the above probably seems really snarky. It's meant to be a calm, civil anecdote to illustrate my point, but I apologize if it does seem hostile. In any case, I think preventing people from using their library computer time as they see fit 1) will result in upset users due to many false positives, 2) results in more ... "big-brother-ism", if you will, 3) will cost as much money as it saves.
    - mberning 16y ago
      I see your point. From a different perspective, if the library weren't so complacent on enforcing the rules there would be a need for less workstations, less IT staff, less infrastructure, less management. I guess I look at people surfing porn and youtube on public computers and see that as a 'waste' of money as compared to how it was intended to be used.
      - silentbicycle 16y ago
        If they're anything like every library I've ever worked for or visited in my entire life, they're probably too underfunded and understaffed to perfectly block people from using the public computers to do anything the local policy considers inappropriate. I highly doubt it's a matter of complacency.
- Semiapies 16y ago
  And they're paying into the library too with their taxes, poor or not.
  - mberning 16y ago
    They may or may not, but I would put money on a majority of them not paying income tax due to the large number of homeless and vagrants. But that is beside the point. Paying taxes does not give you the right to a) break the rules (surfing porn IS against the rules) and b) causes an environment that is not conducive to the intended use (i.e. a filthy environment that drives away legitimate users)
    - JacobAldridge 16y ago
      I think the porn thing (which is as much about rules not being enforced as anything) can be separated from "facebook and myspace pages, and youtube", which were part of your original point. Is it just the vagrants watching porn that pisses you off? That's maybe caring too much about the topic, but it raises a fair point.
    - Semiapies 16y ago
      Homeless folks still have to pay sales taxes in most places. People breaking the rules is certainly a valid complaint. However, I'm not aware of libraries banning YouTube (if people are using headphones), Facebook, or whatnot.
      - WildUtah 16y ago
        Homeless folks still have to pay sales taxes And a lot of cigarette taxes and booze excise taxes. Really poor people pay a much larger proportion of their incomes in taxes.
kensan 16y ago
`In my younger and more vulnerable years my father gave me some advice that I’ve been turning over in my mind ever since. “Whenever you feel like criticizing any one,” he told me, “just remember that all the people in this world haven’t had the advantages that you’ve had.”` - The Great Gatsby
- mberning 16y ago
  I don't see how them being disadvantaged exempts them from library rules. Does being disadvantaged exempt people from the law. Of course not.
  - khafra 16y ago
    The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread.
    - rhizome 16y ago
      You should attribute the quotes you use. Anatole France.
    - Semiapies 16y ago
      I suspect we can make a sensible distinction between being harassed by the police for being homeless and not being able to look at porn in a public library.
      - darklajid 16y ago
        I think that is just as misleading as the quote above. Decide for yourself: Is this thread about viewing pornography in public places? Is this thread about _homeless_ or _too poor to pay for internet access in any way_ people looking at porn? Or are we seriously discussing about tax dollars being spent in a wrong way? Disclaimer following: I'm not a US guy and I've never been there, but both based on extrapolation (looking at my country, guessing it's not that different over there) and some public media stunts I'd like to reset some expectations here. Paying for library internet access and the machines there won't ruin your country, period. If the libraries are somewhat similar to ours, the machines are old/reused/will stay for years or are a gift of a local company. Internet is a given for most places anyway and doesn't cost more if you're not only using it behind the counter but offer a couple of public places to use it as well. So in the end I think the "tax dollar" argument is moot. It's - with my limited understanding - completely bogus and just tries to reinforce a moral problem with the use of public workstations ("I don't like your use case _and btw I pay for that_"). Chances are, you're not. Not in any way worth mentioning. Had a donut or a coffee at Starbucks (bridging the gap back to the article again) recently? Chances are you paid a lot more than the amount of your taxes going into "funding for internet usage in libraries". Seriously. This thread seems completely disconnected from reality and nothing but a "WAH!" in my book.
blackguardx 16y ago
Pissed that your tax dollars provide computer access to people without computers? You don't approve of the sites they visit, so would you also complain if the books they read didn't meet your approval? Not everyone in the library should have to read Shakespeare, ya know.
theBobMcCormick 16y ago
Isn't it somewhat the opposite? It's not that "your tax dollars" are supporting that people browsing porn at the library. To prevent people from browsing porn, the library have to spend more of "your tax dollars" to either install filtering software or employ people to walk around and look over people's shoulders. That's not even considering the far thornier problem that porn filtering programs can often block legitimate web browsing, such as looking for information about sex education, safe sex, STD's etc.
bandushrew 16y ago
could we skip the shocked outrage part of the discussion? Tax dollars go on random, pointless crap pretty much most of the time, and to be honest if I had to choose between, say, paying for the govt to invade Iraq or paying for someone without a computer to view pornography or visit facebook, I would choose the latter without hesitation. Its a shame you dont approve of how others utilise their available resources, but maybe you could discuss the issue without faux-outrage. Its a boring and (these days) over used means of communication.

JacobAldridge 16y ago

"but I was completely pissed off that my tax dollars go to support that." People who can't afford a few hundred dollars for their own computer and the monthly bill for internet access? If you're looking at porn in the library, it's because you can't do it anywhere else, not because you're abusing tax dollars. Would I like the poor, the disadvantaged, the isolated to be using the library resources my taxes pay for to advance their lives? Hell yeah. Am I going to begrudge them - let alone get pissed off about - them using it to do the things I can do on my phone, on my way to the well-paying job? Hell no.

rbanffy 16y ago
> ...using it to do the things I can do on my phone, on my way to the well-paying job You really shouldn't watch porn on your phone while you drive. ;-)
- dhimes 16y ago
  Well, we're not allowed to text any more so what do they expect?
- jarek 16y ago
  Maybe he's on a train. In a personal compartment.
  - JacobAldridge 16y ago
    Actually, I was referring to Facebook, Myspace and YouTube (from the parent comment) more than the porn, though it doesn't read like that! And I don't actually have a smartphone, so the only thing I can do with my phone on the Underground when going to work is ... tell the time.
mberning 16y ago
This is completely and utterly asinine. Not only does this inappropriate use cause a hostile environment for people that legitimately want to use the library, but it lowers the number of available workstations for legitimate use. Just imagine your grandmother or little sister going down to the library to do some research and being uncomfortable in this environment. Think they are going to go back? No, of course they won't. But they will continue to pay tax to fund it. I don't understand how anybody could be 'OK' with this gross misuse of public funds.
- mileszs 16y ago
  Perhaps we should pay someone to decide what people are allowed to look at on those computers. Actually, that doesn't seem fair. Perhaps we should pay a committee to decide, and they can hand their decision to an IT department to implement. Well, I suppose adding another responsibility to the library's IT staff will mean we'll have to pay to add a position to the department so they're staffed well enough. There. Problem solved. Funds are no longer being misused. Right? Because this is the internet, the above probably seems really snarky. It's meant to be a calm, civil anecdote to illustrate my point, but I apologize if it does seem hostile. In any case, I think preventing people from using their library computer time as they see fit 1) will result in upset users due to many false positives, 2) results in more ... "big-brother-ism", if you will, 3) will cost as much money as it saves.
  - mberning 16y ago
    I see your point. From a different perspective, if the library weren't so complacent on enforcing the rules there would be a need for less workstations, less IT staff, less infrastructure, less management. I guess I look at people surfing porn and youtube on public computers and see that as a 'waste' of money as compared to how it was intended to be used.
    - silentbicycle 16y ago
      If they're anything like every library I've ever worked for or visited in my entire life, they're probably too underfunded and understaffed to perfectly block people from using the public computers to do anything the local policy considers inappropriate. I highly doubt it's a matter of complacency.
Semiapies 16y ago
And they're paying into the library too with their taxes, poor or not.
- mberning 16y ago
  They may or may not, but I would put money on a majority of them not paying income tax due to the large number of homeless and vagrants. But that is beside the point. Paying taxes does not give you the right to a) break the rules (surfing porn IS against the rules) and b) causes an environment that is not conducive to the intended use (i.e. a filthy environment that drives away legitimate users)
  - JacobAldridge 16y ago
    I think the porn thing (which is as much about rules not being enforced as anything) can be separated from "facebook and myspace pages, and youtube", which were part of your original point. Is it just the vagrants watching porn that pisses you off? That's maybe caring too much about the topic, but it raises a fair point.
  - Semiapies 16y ago
    Homeless folks still have to pay sales taxes in most places. People breaking the rules is certainly a valid complaint. However, I'm not aware of libraries banning YouTube (if people are using headphones), Facebook, or whatnot.
    - WildUtah 16y ago
      Homeless folks still have to pay sales taxes And a lot of cigarette taxes and booze excise taxes. Really poor people pay a much larger proportion of their incomes in taxes.

kensan 16y ago

`In my younger and more vulnerable years my father gave me some advice that I’ve been turning over in my mind ever since. “Whenever you feel like criticizing any one,” he told me, “just remember that all the people in this world haven’t had the advantages that you’ve had.”` - The Great Gatsby

mberning 16y ago
I don't see how them being disadvantaged exempts them from library rules. Does being disadvantaged exempt people from the law. Of course not.
- khafra 16y ago
  The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread.
  - rhizome 16y ago
    You should attribute the quotes you use. Anatole France.
  - Semiapies 16y ago
    I suspect we can make a sensible distinction between being harassed by the police for being homeless and not being able to look at porn in a public library.
    - darklajid 16y ago
      I think that is just as misleading as the quote above. Decide for yourself: Is this thread about viewing pornography in public places? Is this thread about _homeless_ or _too poor to pay for internet access in any way_ people looking at porn? Or are we seriously discussing about tax dollars being spent in a wrong way? Disclaimer following: I'm not a US guy and I've never been there, but both based on extrapolation (looking at my country, guessing it's not that different over there) and some public media stunts I'd like to reset some expectations here. Paying for library internet access and the machines there won't ruin your country, period. If the libraries are somewhat similar to ours, the machines are old/reused/will stay for years or are a gift of a local company. Internet is a given for most places anyway and doesn't cost more if you're not only using it behind the counter but offer a couple of public places to use it as well. So in the end I think the "tax dollar" argument is moot. It's - with my limited understanding - completely bogus and just tries to reinforce a moral problem with the use of public workstations ("I don't like your use case _and btw I pay for that_"). Chances are, you're not. Not in any way worth mentioning. Had a donut or a coffee at Starbucks (bridging the gap back to the article again) recently? Chances are you paid a lot more than the amount of your taxes going into "funding for internet usage in libraries". Seriously. This thread seems completely disconnected from reality and nothing but a "WAH!" in my book.

blackguardx 16y ago

Pissed that your tax dollars provide computer access to people without computers? You don't approve of the sites they visit, so would you also complain if the books they read didn't meet your approval? Not everyone in the library should have to read Shakespeare, ya know.

theBobMcCormick 16y ago

Isn't it somewhat the opposite? It's not that "your tax dollars" are supporting that people browsing porn at the library. To prevent people from browsing porn, the library have to spend more of "your tax dollars" to either install filtering software or employ people to walk around and look over people's shoulders. That's not even considering the far thornier problem that porn filtering programs can often block legitimate web browsing, such as looking for information about sex education, safe sex, STD's etc.

bandushrew 16y ago

could we skip the shocked outrage part of the discussion? Tax dollars go on random, pointless crap pretty much most of the time, and to be honest if I had to choose between, say, paying for the govt to invade Iraq or paying for someone without a computer to view pornography or visit facebook, I would choose the latter without hesitation. Its a shame you dont approve of how others utilise their available resources, but maybe you could discuss the issue without faux-outrage. Its a boring and (these days) over used means of communication.