4 ms·

Sorry, how exactly is Apple "winning"?

sjs 16y ago
Value of their stock? http://i.zdnet.com/blogs/apple-and-google-vs-the-pc-industry-2004-2010-920px.png http://i.zdnet.com/blogs/apple-and-google-vs-the-pc-industry...
- sandipagr 16y ago
  I think there is a difference between entire Apple as a company and Mac. I don't think anyone can deny mobile/music devices are what is driving Apple stock values.
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
  - rimantas 16y ago
    Maybe, but from their last report: "Apple sold 4.13 million Macs during the quarter, a 23 percent unit increase over the year-ago quarter."
    - sandipagr 16y ago
      Yeah there is no denial that Apple is doing great but it's far easier to gain a 23% increase when you have 4-5% share than gaining a 10% with 95% share.
      - sjs 16y ago
        It's not that easy. I think the (lack of) popularity of Macs during the 90s through 2005-ish is a clear indication of that. I also disagree with the logic a bit. Where's the tipping point? At what percentage market share does it become difficult to gain more?
sandipagr 16y ago
ok so now one can't even ask for an honest clarification on HN.
- mbesto 16y ago
  Good point. Apple is winning in the personal computer consumer products market, not the business one (where MS and the hardware vendors are).
- ComputerGuru 16y ago
  I don't think most people (myself included) realized you were asking a sincere question. Usually one-liner questions with that.... tone are snarky replies and not genuine questions seeking genuine clarification/answers. Just a suggestion, but if you try to flesh out your queries a bit more you may find them more likely to be answered. Not your fault, but when every other poster is being ironic/sarcastic/sardonic, you have to take the extra step to make sure you're not mistaken for one of them :)
  - sandipagr 16y ago
    I was serious because I did not find my parent comment to be adding anything. I even added "sorry" to indicate I honestly wanted to know. I guess it made it worse. Would blame ESL :)
    - ComputerGuru 16y ago
      Yeah, definitely a miscommunication issue. Without the "sorry" it would have come off normal, but depending on the tone and inflection of "sorry" to native speakers it could either be complete sarcasm or genuine bewilderment. But the default here would be the former :)
raganwald 16y ago
The last time this kind of thing was being analyzed in detail, Apple's market share of the PC industry was insignificant, but it earned something like 35% of all of the profit of all PC manufacturers combined. Anybody care to chime in with some citations supporting/refuting this? I found: http://gigaom.com/apple/mac-lands-one-two-punch-against-pcs-in-profit-and-growth/ http://gigaom.com/apple/mac-lands-one-two-punch-against-pcs-... But it's a little confusing. It says Apple's unit share is between 4% and 5%, but what they call its profit share is its share of revenues, which depending on how you count seems to be 20%-25%. Given that Apple's profit margins are higher than PC manufacturers, Apple's share of the profits has to be higher than its share of revenues. This is actually astounding, it's the opposite of what you might naively assume: In most markets, you would expect the revenue leader to be the one with the lowest prices and thinnest margins who tries to "make it up on volume." Apple has either slightly more or approximately the same revenues as Dell and HP, while selling half as many computers at (obviously) higher prices and higher margins.
- sandipagr 16y ago
  The 20-25% number is for US only and that too for home computer sales only. While I agree with you that Apple is doing great because of the higher profit margin and increased sales, I still won't call them a winner until they have at least 50% profit share.
  - raganwald 16y ago
    Let me see if I understand you correctly: There are dozens or even hundreds of PC manufacturers competing with Apple and they are only winners if they have 50% of the profits in the market? Is that your metric for "winning?" You asked other people what they mean by winning. If you want to have a productive conversation, I suggest you ensure that your definition of winning matches theirs. Otherwise, there will only be confusion.
    - sandipagr 16y ago
      Isn't it about windows and OSX only because all PC manufactures add bloatwares to their PC making them all one? If in the end the one who adds bloatwares makes more money, I have to give it to them, right? Maybe I am understanding it all wrong.

sjs 16y ago

Value of their stock? http://i.zdnet.com/blogs/apple-and-google-vs-the-pc-industry-2004-2010-920px.png http://i.zdnet.com/blogs/apple-and-google-vs-the-pc-industry...

sandipagr 16y ago
I think there is a difference between entire Apple as a company and Mac. I don't think anyone can deny mobile/music devices are what is driving Apple stock values.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- rimantas 16y ago
  Maybe, but from their last report: "Apple sold 4.13 million Macs during the quarter, a 23 percent unit increase over the year-ago quarter."
  - sandipagr 16y ago
    Yeah there is no denial that Apple is doing great but it's far easier to gain a 23% increase when you have 4-5% share than gaining a 10% with 95% share.
    - sjs 16y ago
      It's not that easy. I think the (lack of) popularity of Macs during the 90s through 2005-ish is a clear indication of that. I also disagree with the logic a bit. Where's the tipping point? At what percentage market share does it become difficult to gain more?

sandipagr 16y ago

ok so now one can't even ask for an honest clarification on HN.

mbesto 16y ago
Good point. Apple is winning in the personal computer consumer products market, not the business one (where MS and the hardware vendors are).
ComputerGuru 16y ago
I don't think most people (myself included) realized you were asking a sincere question. Usually one-liner questions with that.... tone are snarky replies and not genuine questions seeking genuine clarification/answers. Just a suggestion, but if you try to flesh out your queries a bit more you may find them more likely to be answered. Not your fault, but when every other poster is being ironic/sarcastic/sardonic, you have to take the extra step to make sure you're not mistaken for one of them :)
- sandipagr 16y ago
  I was serious because I did not find my parent comment to be adding anything. I even added "sorry" to indicate I honestly wanted to know. I guess it made it worse. Would blame ESL :)
  - ComputerGuru 16y ago
    Yeah, definitely a miscommunication issue. Without the "sorry" it would have come off normal, but depending on the tone and inflection of "sorry" to native speakers it could either be complete sarcasm or genuine bewilderment. But the default here would be the former :)

raganwald 16y ago

The last time this kind of thing was being analyzed in detail, Apple's market share of the PC industry was insignificant, but it earned something like 35% of all of the profit of all PC manufacturers combined. Anybody care to chime in with some citations supporting/refuting this? I found: http://gigaom.com/apple/mac-lands-one-two-punch-against-pcs-in-profit-and-growth/ http://gigaom.com/apple/mac-lands-one-two-punch-against-pcs-... But it's a little confusing. It says Apple's unit share is between 4% and 5%, but what they call its profit share is its share of revenues, which depending on how you count seems to be 20%-25%. Given that Apple's profit margins are higher than PC manufacturers, Apple's share of the profits has to be higher than its share of revenues. This is actually astounding, it's the opposite of what you might naively assume: In most markets, you would expect the revenue leader to be the one with the lowest prices and thinnest margins who tries to "make it up on volume." Apple has either slightly more or approximately the same revenues as Dell and HP, while selling half as many computers at (obviously) higher prices and higher margins.

sandipagr 16y ago
The 20-25% number is for US only and that too for home computer sales only. While I agree with you that Apple is doing great because of the higher profit margin and increased sales, I still won't call them a winner until they have at least 50% profit share.
- raganwald 16y ago
  Let me see if I understand you correctly: There are dozens or even hundreds of PC manufacturers competing with Apple and they are only winners if they have 50% of the profits in the market? Is that your metric for "winning?" You asked other people what they mean by winning. If you want to have a productive conversation, I suggest you ensure that your definition of winning matches theirs. Otherwise, there will only be confusion.
  - sandipagr 16y ago
    Isn't it about windows and OSX only because all PC manufactures add bloatwares to their PC making them all one? If in the end the one who adds bloatwares makes more money, I have to give it to them, right? Maybe I am understanding it all wrong.