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If I live next to a subway and tram stations (trams have dedicated tracks not shared with car in most places here) and the car is still a better option, it's an

If I live next to a subway and tram stations (trams have dedicated tracks not shared with car in most places here) and the car is still a better option, it's an issue with the public transport system and people driving do not make it much worse. The subway is not affected at all and yet the number of trains per hour has stayed constant for years.

glofish 7y ago
What is your point exactly? That it is possible that there a few individuals for whom driving is more advantageous than public transport? Of course, it is possible. Is it likely that if everyone drove instead of taking public transport driving would become unbearable for everyone, you included? Of course again. So what are you arguing for exactly? That everyone should drive? Are you looking for absolution for liking to drive? Are you looking for an arrangment where it is ok if you drive but not others?
- TomMarius 7y ago
  A few = hundreds of thousands cars daily? That's not "a few" to me (out of 1.5 million citizens city).
- jeromegv 7y ago
  I don’t exactly understand the point either. Public transit is clearly more efficient when you look at it from a system perspective. A subway can carry 30000/person per hour and a car lane full of cars at 1.2 person/car isn’t anywhere close from those numbers. What is there to argue really? I’m sure you can get door to door faster in a car when you have an empty road and follow a path that doesn’t exist on public transit but you can’t argue that if everyone was driving that it would scale in any kind of way better. Car lanes are just not carrying the same amount of passengers on top of requiring a parking space on both end (which is highly expensive real estate in any larger city)
  - bluGill 7y ago
    Problem is most people are going from door to door, while your transit system makes you go to wherever it stops. Unless transit has some other large advantage it is going to be a worse choice for most individuals even given traffic. (separate tracks are a large advantage - but only if the tracks more or less go close to where you want to end up)
    - lanstin 7y ago
      You misunderstood the question - not "is it better for me for this trip to drive or take a train?" but "is it better for me to have a city where people only drive or where many people take the train?"
      - bluGill 7y ago
        I understand the question. However I reject it because the question gets those asking it where they want to be. If you want to make changes to make things "better" then you need to ask the right questions. The question isn't wouldn't it be nice if everybody takes transit - or even nearly everybody (acknowledging those that need to travel with a truck full of tools/parts). The useful question is how do you get the next potential rider on and keep the existing riders from buying a car when they have money.
saberdancer 7y ago
You are experiencing what it means to live with a good public transport system and spare capacity on the roads. If the roads are not congested, car which doesn't need to make stops is faster, but when the congestion increases then public transport with dedicated tracks/lines wins.

glofish 7y ago

What is your point exactly? That it is possible that there a few individuals for whom driving is more advantageous than public transport? Of course, it is possible. Is it likely that if everyone drove instead of taking public transport driving would become unbearable for everyone, you included? Of course again. So what are you arguing for exactly? That everyone should drive? Are you looking for absolution for liking to drive? Are you looking for an arrangment where it is ok if you drive but not others?

TomMarius 7y ago
A few = hundreds of thousands cars daily? That's not "a few" to me (out of 1.5 million citizens city).
jeromegv 7y ago
I don’t exactly understand the point either. Public transit is clearly more efficient when you look at it from a system perspective. A subway can carry 30000/person per hour and a car lane full of cars at 1.2 person/car isn’t anywhere close from those numbers. What is there to argue really? I’m sure you can get door to door faster in a car when you have an empty road and follow a path that doesn’t exist on public transit but you can’t argue that if everyone was driving that it would scale in any kind of way better. Car lanes are just not carrying the same amount of passengers on top of requiring a parking space on both end (which is highly expensive real estate in any larger city)
- bluGill 7y ago
  Problem is most people are going from door to door, while your transit system makes you go to wherever it stops. Unless transit has some other large advantage it is going to be a worse choice for most individuals even given traffic. (separate tracks are a large advantage - but only if the tracks more or less go close to where you want to end up)
  - lanstin 7y ago
    You misunderstood the question - not "is it better for me for this trip to drive or take a train?" but "is it better for me to have a city where people only drive or where many people take the train?"
    - bluGill 7y ago
      I understand the question. However I reject it because the question gets those asking it where they want to be. If you want to make changes to make things "better" then you need to ask the right questions. The question isn't wouldn't it be nice if everybody takes transit - or even nearly everybody (acknowledging those that need to travel with a truck full of tools/parts). The useful question is how do you get the next potential rider on and keep the existing riders from buying a car when they have money.

saberdancer 7y ago

You are experiencing what it means to live with a good public transport system and spare capacity on the roads. If the roads are not congested, car which doesn't need to make stops is faster, but when the congestion increases then public transport with dedicated tracks/lines wins.