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What a stark contrast to Romania, which had almost 2000 deaths at a population only 4 times larger than norway. Wondering what are the lessons to learn and appl

What a stark contrast to Romania, which had almost 2000 deaths at a population only 4 times larger than norway. Wondering what are the lessons to learn and apply to that country as the situation is out of control.

RivieraKid 7y ago
Safer cars.
- gombosg 7y ago
  Just look at the huge traffic fatality rate in the USA despite the 'safe' SUV trend. Better roads & infrastructure (which lead to less car use and slower traffic), driver education, enforcing traffic laws do help though.
- ossworkerrights 7y ago
  Most cars around Romania are German made and used, most recently clocked or written off in that country. But the issue is driving culture and lack of policing I think. Romania had cameras and they were removed, the government claims, because they are against EU regulation. Naturally that's BS, and most laws are made in favor of law breakers not sure why.
alkonaut 7y ago
First of all, having 0.02% blood alcohol limit (I.e. effectively a zero tolerance) is a good and cheap start. Next comes the expensive things: Replace the car fleet with large, safe and modern cars. Build infrastructure like pedestrian walkways etc to have few unprotected people in traffic. Replace crossings with roundabouts and rebuild motorways and other high speed roads to never have oncoming traffic (separating railings etc). Have extensive automated speed monitoring, including average-speed monitoring, i.e. multiple speed cameras that time the passage of cars over some distance such as through a tunnel.
- gombosg 7y ago
  Just one comment, large cars are not necessarily safer, and small cars can be safe, too. SUVs are not only notorious for their awful gas mileage but also how unsafe they can be for the pedestrian or other car they hit if they do.
  - alkonaut 7y ago
    Absolutely, but large cars are typically marginally safer at least for the occupant. Norway has quite good separation of cars and pedestrians, and cars are quite large on average so in a collision there is a decent chance that both cars are large (e.g. SUV's) and not just one.
  - ossworkerrights 7y ago
    Sadly i had to buy an suv for the safety of better road visibility. One really needs to see ahead as overtakings are taking place even when both ways are full of cars and seeing distant events helps my reaction times. I know they pollute more but safety comes first.
  - surfmike 7y ago
    Assuming they’re built with the same safety technologies, larger cars are absolutely safer. https://www.edmunds.com/car-safety/are-smaller-cars-as-safe-as-large-cars.html https://www.edmunds.com/car-safety/are-smaller-cars-as-safe-...
    - ceejayoz 7y ago
      Safer for their occupants, at least. Not necessarily for the other cards on the road, or pedestrians.
- ossworkerrights 7y ago
  Yeah tolerance is 0% in Romania, and imo the issue is cultural. Overtaking on two lane roads while there is oncoming traffic is pretty common, and so is overtaking in sharp curves with little visibility. There are no mechanisms of reporting such issues to the police, and laws are made such ways that criminals get away with it. A few weeks ago a politician talking on their phone killed two people by entering the wrong way, and guess what? Romania’s legal system put part of the blame on victims because apparently they havent tried hard enough to avoid the collision! Ming boggles.
ozim 7y ago
I am from Poland have not been to Norway but I live in the Netherlands. I have been to Romania for work for about two months. It is mostly driving culture, I noticed in Romania people have to get quick everywhere because of "reasons". They have a car so they feel important. Like "out of the way pesants on foot". There was a lot of bad roads, and romanian people I was working with, mostly complained about roads being shitty. (Taxi drivers driving like Formula 1 drivers, good that we did not crashed into anything) That said, Poland would be somewhere in between Romania and Netherlands (not sure about stats) but in my impression of driving culture. There is still a lot of people who think "I have a car, I am important, I have to be quick everywhere because of reasons". Infrastructure was bad in Poland as well (last years we got a lot of better roads, so I am happy about that and hope Romania gets their infra a lot better also, or have it built now). In the Netherlands, no one gives a fuck if you have a car, you are not important just because you drive. Everyone basically can afford a car (not being communistic country, everyone having a car would be quite normal since 80's, I bet Norway also had a lot more people driving since 80's than in PL or Romania) so by any means having a car is not a status symbol (unless it is new Porsche or Tesla). Fines are insanely expensive (at least from what I read it is also the case in Norway). So basically two things as my take away for this: drivers thinking they are more important, shitty infrastructure.
- ossworkerrights 7y ago
  Spot on regarding "reasons". There is a reason for anything people do bad around here. Literally anything. And your statement "thinking they are more important" applies to pretty much everything and everyone whom improved their situation a little bit: they think a higher standard of living means stepping on others. Really poor state of affairs, and sadly it creates loads of victims, be it on the road or in hospitals or otherwise.
- tomashm 7y ago
  Yes, the fines are expensive in Norway. Driving 101-105 km/h when the speed limit is 70 km/h, results in a fine of around $1200. 106 km/h or above results in loss of drivers license.

RivieraKid 7y ago

Safer cars.

gombosg 7y ago
Just look at the huge traffic fatality rate in the USA despite the 'safe' SUV trend. Better roads & infrastructure (which lead to less car use and slower traffic), driver education, enforcing traffic laws do help though.
ossworkerrights 7y ago
Most cars around Romania are German made and used, most recently clocked or written off in that country. But the issue is driving culture and lack of policing I think. Romania had cameras and they were removed, the government claims, because they are against EU regulation. Naturally that's BS, and most laws are made in favor of law breakers not sure why.

alkonaut 7y ago

First of all, having 0.02% blood alcohol limit (I.e. effectively a zero tolerance) is a good and cheap start. Next comes the expensive things: Replace the car fleet with large, safe and modern cars. Build infrastructure like pedestrian walkways etc to have few unprotected people in traffic. Replace crossings with roundabouts and rebuild motorways and other high speed roads to never have oncoming traffic (separating railings etc). Have extensive automated speed monitoring, including average-speed monitoring, i.e. multiple speed cameras that time the passage of cars over some distance such as through a tunnel.

gombosg 7y ago
Just one comment, large cars are not necessarily safer, and small cars can be safe, too. SUVs are not only notorious for their awful gas mileage but also how unsafe they can be for the pedestrian or other car they hit if they do.
- alkonaut 7y ago
  Absolutely, but large cars are typically marginally safer at least for the occupant. Norway has quite good separation of cars and pedestrians, and cars are quite large on average so in a collision there is a decent chance that both cars are large (e.g. SUV's) and not just one.
- ossworkerrights 7y ago
  Sadly i had to buy an suv for the safety of better road visibility. One really needs to see ahead as overtakings are taking place even when both ways are full of cars and seeing distant events helps my reaction times. I know they pollute more but safety comes first.
- surfmike 7y ago
  Assuming they’re built with the same safety technologies, larger cars are absolutely safer. https://www.edmunds.com/car-safety/are-smaller-cars-as-safe-as-large-cars.html https://www.edmunds.com/car-safety/are-smaller-cars-as-safe-...
  - ceejayoz 7y ago
    Safer for their occupants, at least. Not necessarily for the other cards on the road, or pedestrians.
ossworkerrights 7y ago
Yeah tolerance is 0% in Romania, and imo the issue is cultural. Overtaking on two lane roads while there is oncoming traffic is pretty common, and so is overtaking in sharp curves with little visibility. There are no mechanisms of reporting such issues to the police, and laws are made such ways that criminals get away with it. A few weeks ago a politician talking on their phone killed two people by entering the wrong way, and guess what? Romania’s legal system put part of the blame on victims because apparently they havent tried hard enough to avoid the collision! Ming boggles.

ozim 7y ago

I am from Poland have not been to Norway but I live in the Netherlands. I have been to Romania for work for about two months. It is mostly driving culture, I noticed in Romania people have to get quick everywhere because of "reasons". They have a car so they feel important. Like "out of the way pesants on foot". There was a lot of bad roads, and romanian people I was working with, mostly complained about roads being shitty. (Taxi drivers driving like Formula 1 drivers, good that we did not crashed into anything) That said, Poland would be somewhere in between Romania and Netherlands (not sure about stats) but in my impression of driving culture. There is still a lot of people who think "I have a car, I am important, I have to be quick everywhere because of reasons". Infrastructure was bad in Poland as well (last years we got a lot of better roads, so I am happy about that and hope Romania gets their infra a lot better also, or have it built now). In the Netherlands, no one gives a fuck if you have a car, you are not important just because you drive. Everyone basically can afford a car (not being communistic country, everyone having a car would be quite normal since 80's, I bet Norway also had a lot more people driving since 80's than in PL or Romania) so by any means having a car is not a status symbol (unless it is new Porsche or Tesla). Fines are insanely expensive (at least from what I read it is also the case in Norway). So basically two things as my take away for this: drivers thinking they are more important, shitty infrastructure.

ossworkerrights 7y ago
Spot on regarding "reasons". There is a reason for anything people do bad around here. Literally anything. And your statement "thinking they are more important" applies to pretty much everything and everyone whom improved their situation a little bit: they think a higher standard of living means stepping on others. Really poor state of affairs, and sadly it creates loads of victims, be it on the road or in hospitals or otherwise.
tomashm 7y ago
Yes, the fines are expensive in Norway. Driving 101-105 km/h when the speed limit is 70 km/h, results in a fine of around $1200. 106 km/h or above results in loss of drivers license.