5 ms·

Seems like a cultural problem, not a crosswalk light problem. Most people (myself included) automatically slow down when driving into a crosswalk. Our intersect

Seems like a cultural problem, not a crosswalk light problem. Most people (myself included) automatically slow down when driving into a crosswalk. Our intersections are usually fairly small, so it's hard to build up any speed, even if you wanted to.

S_A_P 7y ago
This. In Houston you have the added adventure of every 1 of every 2.5 people distracted driving and not looking where they are going or minding the pedestrian traffic.
MereInterest 7y ago
Oh, it is definitely a huge cultural problem. In the US, many drivers will ignore the existence of pedestrians altogether. For example, pulling up to an intersection and only looking to the left before making a right turn, because that is the only direction that car traffic can be coming from. It isn't every car by any means, but enough cars that pedestrians need to assume that drivers are incompetent until given evidence otherwise.
- ken 7y ago
  It goes both ways. At least once a day (in the USA) I see a pedestrian walk or run into an intersection against their own red. A few are lost in their phones, but the vast majority simply take a glance to make sure you're going to slow down, and then charge on through.
  - MereInterest 7y ago
    It is still an entirely asymmetric situation. If a pedestrian is inattentive, the consequences fall on the pedestrian. If a driver is inattentive, the consequences fall on the pedestrian. (This is not to imply that severe injury and death are appropriate "punishments" for walking inattentively, merely that the pedestrians have large incentive to modulate their behavior, while drivers do not.)
- plumednom 7y ago
  I grew up in San Francisco and were sure that American drivers were sociopaths hell-bent on racking up points by scaring pedestrians. Then I moved to Istanbul, and I miss the idyllic, carefree days of being able to stroll through san francisco with headphones on and not playing frogger at every intersection, or dodging delivery scooters on the sidewalks.
- YeGoblynQueenne 7y ago
  >> Oh, it is definitely a huge cultural problem. In the US, many drivers will ignore the existence of pedestrians altogether. Strange, because most likely the majority of drivers also walk at least a short distance around the same cities they drive into. In the US in particular, eyballing the number of cars and the number of pedestrians in images of places like New York etc that I've seen, it's very hard to believe that there's a clear line separating all those people walking about from all those people who drive cars, other than the specific time of day they do one or the other. So you'd think that being careful around pedestrians should come naturally to most drivers, if nothing else because they'd want other drivers to be careful around them as pedestrians also.
  - ativzzz 7y ago
    You have to remember that the vast majority of the US is nothing like NYC in terms of walkability or population density, and in the city I live in (suburb of a major Texas city) there is literally nothing within walking distance of my house except a school, and some of the big streets don't even have sidewalks.
  - khrbrt 7y ago
    Many drivers are commuters from the suburbs who drive in the morning, park inside or very near their office building, and drive home in the evening. The downtowns of many US cities are completely dead after "working" hours.
  - magduf 7y ago
    >In the US in particular, eyballing the number of cars and the number of pedestrians in images of places like New York etc that I've seen You sound like a non-American. Let me give you some advice: take everything you've ever seen about NYC, and file that in a different place in your brain's filing system away from your file labeled "America". It does not represent America in any way when talking about cars, walkability, culture, or really anything else really. It's a place that's totally unique in the world. For some reason, too many non-Americans see movies set in NYC and think that all of America is just like this, and it isn't at all. (Personally, I wish it was more representative of America in terms of walkability, but it just isn't.)
- furyofantares 7y ago
  And then also, many pedestrians see the walk sign and just start crossing while staring at their phone without even glancing around to be sure there aren't any inattentive drivers heading their way.
  - weberc2 7y ago
    While true, the distractedness (on the part of the pedestrian or the driver) doesn't absolve the driver of their responsibility to yield in this scenario. A driver who hits a pedestrian in this scenario will be subject to criminal and civil penalties, and rightly so.
    - furyofantares 7y ago
      I certainly hope I didn't imply otherwise. On a cultural and legal level, assigning fault/responsibility to drivers makes total sense. On a personal level, if I get killed I'm not gonna care that much that it "wasn't my fault" and I should take the precaution of looking up from my phone when walking in front of moving vehicles.
      - weberc2 7y ago
        I don’t think you implied otherwise, but people say some crazy things on this site, so I wanted to be perfectly clear.
- bcrosby95 7y ago
  This doesn't completely jive with my experience. I live near schools and drivers aren't constantly almost running into kids walking to the park or school. But it certainly seems true in busier areas with less pedestrian traffic such as mini malls. Especially when pulling out of parking lots.
- weberc2 7y ago
  > In the US, many drivers will ignore the existence of pedestrians altogether. This is pretty limited to urban areas, in my experience. In more suburban and rural parts of the country, people are much more cautious and obedient to traffic signals and rights of way. Of course there are exceptions in both cases, but running red lights, turning into pedestrians/cyclists/etc is much more prominent in major cities. As an urban pedestrian, I just have to keep my head on a swivel because there's a good chance that the taxi/Uber across from me is going to run the light that just turned red so he can make his left turn instead of waiting for his signal.
bluGill 7y ago
There are so few pedestrians that most drivers are not used to looking for them.
alistairSH 7y ago
It's both. Right-on-red is a huge problem in areas where pedestrians want to cross. If memory serves, the UK does not allow turns on red. That makes more sense to me. On my walk to work, I have to cross one 8-lane suburban street. 4 thru lanes, plus several turn lanes in each direction. The radius of the corners is smooth. Stop lines are far back from the actual apex of the corner. So, cars can easily roll through corners at 40mph. They do this when I have a walk signal because they either have their own green, or they're turning on red and only looking for oncoming traffic (to their left) and not for pedestrians (to their right).

S_A_P 7y ago

This. In Houston you have the added adventure of every 1 of every 2.5 people distracted driving and not looking where they are going or minding the pedestrian traffic.

MereInterest 7y ago

Oh, it is definitely a huge cultural problem. In the US, many drivers will ignore the existence of pedestrians altogether. For example, pulling up to an intersection and only looking to the left before making a right turn, because that is the only direction that car traffic can be coming from. It isn't every car by any means, but enough cars that pedestrians need to assume that drivers are incompetent until given evidence otherwise.

ken 7y ago
It goes both ways. At least once a day (in the USA) I see a pedestrian walk or run into an intersection against their own red. A few are lost in their phones, but the vast majority simply take a glance to make sure you're going to slow down, and then charge on through.
- MereInterest 7y ago
  It is still an entirely asymmetric situation. If a pedestrian is inattentive, the consequences fall on the pedestrian. If a driver is inattentive, the consequences fall on the pedestrian. (This is not to imply that severe injury and death are appropriate "punishments" for walking inattentively, merely that the pedestrians have large incentive to modulate their behavior, while drivers do not.)
plumednom 7y ago
I grew up in San Francisco and were sure that American drivers were sociopaths hell-bent on racking up points by scaring pedestrians. Then I moved to Istanbul, and I miss the idyllic, carefree days of being able to stroll through san francisco with headphones on and not playing frogger at every intersection, or dodging delivery scooters on the sidewalks.
YeGoblynQueenne 7y ago
>> Oh, it is definitely a huge cultural problem. In the US, many drivers will ignore the existence of pedestrians altogether. Strange, because most likely the majority of drivers also walk at least a short distance around the same cities they drive into. In the US in particular, eyballing the number of cars and the number of pedestrians in images of places like New York etc that I've seen, it's very hard to believe that there's a clear line separating all those people walking about from all those people who drive cars, other than the specific time of day they do one or the other. So you'd think that being careful around pedestrians should come naturally to most drivers, if nothing else because they'd want other drivers to be careful around them as pedestrians also.
- ativzzz 7y ago
  You have to remember that the vast majority of the US is nothing like NYC in terms of walkability or population density, and in the city I live in (suburb of a major Texas city) there is literally nothing within walking distance of my house except a school, and some of the big streets don't even have sidewalks.
- khrbrt 7y ago
  Many drivers are commuters from the suburbs who drive in the morning, park inside or very near their office building, and drive home in the evening. The downtowns of many US cities are completely dead after "working" hours.
- magduf 7y ago
  >In the US in particular, eyballing the number of cars and the number of pedestrians in images of places like New York etc that I've seen You sound like a non-American. Let me give you some advice: take everything you've ever seen about NYC, and file that in a different place in your brain's filing system away from your file labeled "America". It does not represent America in any way when talking about cars, walkability, culture, or really anything else really. It's a place that's totally unique in the world. For some reason, too many non-Americans see movies set in NYC and think that all of America is just like this, and it isn't at all. (Personally, I wish it was more representative of America in terms of walkability, but it just isn't.)
furyofantares 7y ago
And then also, many pedestrians see the walk sign and just start crossing while staring at their phone without even glancing around to be sure there aren't any inattentive drivers heading their way.
- weberc2 7y ago
  While true, the distractedness (on the part of the pedestrian or the driver) doesn't absolve the driver of their responsibility to yield in this scenario. A driver who hits a pedestrian in this scenario will be subject to criminal and civil penalties, and rightly so.
  - furyofantares 7y ago
    I certainly hope I didn't imply otherwise. On a cultural and legal level, assigning fault/responsibility to drivers makes total sense. On a personal level, if I get killed I'm not gonna care that much that it "wasn't my fault" and I should take the precaution of looking up from my phone when walking in front of moving vehicles.
    - weberc2 7y ago
      I don’t think you implied otherwise, but people say some crazy things on this site, so I wanted to be perfectly clear.
bcrosby95 7y ago
This doesn't completely jive with my experience. I live near schools and drivers aren't constantly almost running into kids walking to the park or school. But it certainly seems true in busier areas with less pedestrian traffic such as mini malls. Especially when pulling out of parking lots.
weberc2 7y ago
> In the US, many drivers will ignore the existence of pedestrians altogether. This is pretty limited to urban areas, in my experience. In more suburban and rural parts of the country, people are much more cautious and obedient to traffic signals and rights of way. Of course there are exceptions in both cases, but running red lights, turning into pedestrians/cyclists/etc is much more prominent in major cities. As an urban pedestrian, I just have to keep my head on a swivel because there's a good chance that the taxi/Uber across from me is going to run the light that just turned red so he can make his left turn instead of waiting for his signal.

bluGill 7y ago

There are so few pedestrians that most drivers are not used to looking for them.

alistairSH 7y ago

It's both. Right-on-red is a huge problem in areas where pedestrians want to cross. If memory serves, the UK does not allow turns on red. That makes more sense to me. On my walk to work, I have to cross one 8-lane suburban street. 4 thru lanes, plus several turn lanes in each direction. The radius of the corners is smooth. Stop lines are far back from the actual apex of the corner. So, cars can easily roll through corners at 40mph. They do this when I have a walk signal because they either have their own green, or they're turning on red and only looking for oncoming traffic (to their left) and not for pedestrians (to their right).